I’ve said this in a number of other threads… but the solution to ranking being too easy/hard is pretty simple.
Delete the honor system entirely for ranking.
Replace with a rated pvp system
Rating based on SOLO QUEU Random BG win rates,
Congrats… I literally just fixed nearly all the issues with BGs… Forces people to play more than just one map so we don’t have dead maps/“AV META”, immediately stops “premade farms” relentlessly curbstomping pugs for 20 hours a day (which is goddawful for both sides), and encourages actual participation in games and playing objectives (since winning is the only thing that matters).
The only negative I can think of on it would be that it’s potentially punishing to off meta specs that frankly don’t perform as well as better specs… (more tryhard players would probably argue that it’s a PERK, since they don’t want that trash on their team anyway)… but remember these games would be nearly entirely random … and even off meta “meme specs” can dunk on randoms well enough, especially if they bother using engi/alch support.
Unpopular opinion here, but yes. Because the rewards where SUPPOSED to be incredibly rare/relatively hard to get.
The actual rewards themselves where underpowered for the effort required to attain them, and outright embarrassed by downright superior gear from later stage PvE (not even that late in some cases, I’d rather be in full BWL gear as a warlock than the PvP gear)… BUT the PRESTIGE of getting the title was actually something to kind of ./flex about back in the day. I think it’s lost that since the change, even if I never had a chance in hell of hitting r14 before the change, and could relatively comfortably do so now. That said, as I mentioned above, I’m a lock main, and the pvp gear is straight garbage to me regardless after molten core, so from my perspective the prestige of the title was literally the only thing to care about.
Honestly, slight reality check possibly, but people have been criticizing the r14 grind as being nothing but a “no skill time grind” long before this change.
Any musings about r14 possessing any sort of “merit” or some semblance of “cred” is simply fantasy.
Now back in original vanilla, sure, despite how it’s viewed today, being a rank 14 in original vanilla carried with it some weight and a certain reputation on your server, but that was simply not the case in 2019 Classic and definitely wasn’t in Era pre-change. OG vanilla is a time long past and were well past respecting the legends and mythology of those days (like “Naxx40 was the hardest raid in WoW history”, or other such provably false things today).
This change doesn’t do anything to fix the criticism of r14 lacking a sense of “skill to obtain”., because in my opinion, it’s not aiming to.
R14 is an effort reward, and I don’t really see a big issue with an MMORPG having those types of rewards. This contrasts to Gladiator titles which are a skill based reward. On the spectrum of effort-based rewards, it has a fairly significant ask of the player in terms of regular and un-interrupted consistent gameplay across many weeks, and as I stated at the top of my argument, hardly could be considered “easy”.
I don’t disagree - when I first ranked in classic, it was just a matter of how much hours I could put into it. I wasn’t good (not that I am that much better now). I was in fact a big noob. But I wasn’t afk, like 95% of people are now in AV.
In classic (and maybe SOM?), GM didn’t mean so much that you were really good at PVP, but it was definitely harder to obtain that it is now therefore it had some sort of “prestige”. I will argue that some GM/HWL were actually good players, but to say that it was a measure of how good you were as a player is indeed, pretty untrue. One might argue that you had to be good to be part of the premades, but let’s be real, you’re not really showcasing anything in a premade stomping pugs most of the times…
I will say though, I rarely heard of an AFK AV bot in the old ranking system, and even if it was a possibility, it certainly wasn’t the majority. Can’t quite say the same about the ranking system now.
There’s a difference between effort and time, although related. The old system, was about putting in time AND effort, if you were in a premade, odds are you wouldn’t be kept long if you were afk I would assume.
Now you can rank with quite literally ZERO effort, simply time.
Carries the EXACT same weight. It is literally just a time sink just as raiding is. This is classic everything is easy we play for the community and world being alive.
R14 back then is the same as it is now just a little less time required apparently. Moo two says you can work full time job and play a few hours after work back then and hit r14. Hell maybe its EASIER back then.
Just because you didn’t “see” them doesn’t mean they weren’t there. Just as people were buying gladiator back in the day it just wasn’t as publicized as it is now. It was happening on a large scale back then just as it is now.
I literally said it was a possibility back then. It remains that it’s pretty much the majority now.
It wasn’t as publicized as it is now because the majority of people didn’t do that because that system wasn’t designed for that kind of gameplay.
AFK ranking is the new meta.
They use to ban people for afking bgs back then. In the world of RMT and GDPKS pretty much the majority of wow now ofc everyones afk…
That is the wow culture at the moment.
Yes it was. It was literally always HPH. That is why people had premades to maximize the HPH.
The game was actually fresh back then so people were playing the game and enjoying it. There wasn’t GDKPs back then either. RMT was still a gigantic thing but people were still enjoying wow before actifizzle jacked everything up.
The problem is that developers put more time and resources into technology to make $$ off of wow than the game developers put into the pot to fight back.
Now its so out of hand they need to completely start over with new source code/engine and a entirely different/new game. WOW 2?
still waiting on you moo to explain how you had a “family” and “full time job” but managed to bg 14+ hour days to r14
Ya and I think this is where my resentment towards the new ranking system comes from tbh, as someone that actually enjoys playing various aspect of the game.
Nah its always been the pve crowd man. You say anything about making gearing on par with each other and the PVE crowd loses their minds. IT has been like this for years.
ERA wow is ran off RMT, period. That is a fact. We know it and microblizz knows it. Just watched an off hand fist in Naxx go for 125k gold tonight. Look at the AH, look at player auctions and the amount of gold being sold.
I just hope they have something in store to go along with w/e they are doing for the next classic whatever. It will literally be exactly what it is right now if they don’t have something to new combat the botting/gold selling issues
“Mootwo is forever replying”
R14 doesn’t mean anything different today than it did back then. This is coming from a guy who was unemployed at younger periods of his life who did that grind. You guys need to get over yourselves like you’re any more special than anyone else on these forums.
Simple. We had a cap of 700k and I was able to hit that without playing for 18 hours a day.
My having a premade team helped although I took longer each day to cap than most of the team as a fc druid who wasn’t there for a lot of HK… I did sacrifice sleep at 4 hours a night I’ll admit. Which I already have. I also played all of my weekends. I hung out with the family during the horde queues and on Mondays as we were capped by then. We could still talk a lot too as I was at home. My family supported my crazy binge(s) as my son is older and my partner is supportive as I am too with their crazy things.
I am not lying about anything.
On a general thread note, my main gripe these days isn’t about “how hard it is” or prestige, but instead on what it does to the community, social aspects of WoW PVP, and also the quality of the BG games. This is what I play for above everything else, and it is kind of frustrating to see people who care so little about this core aspect of the “Vanilla” game, and instead are only about themselves, and mostly about getting gear for themselves with no thought to any other person outside of how they can use that person and then throw them away.
I know I’m not alone here either with these thoughts but it mostly takes Discord to find like-minded people out there. They aren’t playing Era mostly because Era doesn’t fit them as it stands either.
I think it’s pretty hyperbolic to say that a “majority” of people trying to rank right now are AFK bots.
Are a lot of people not very good and couldn’t get a duelist title if their life depended on it? Sure. However, as I said, I don’t think r14 was ever necessarily intended to be a skill-cap demonstration.
I’d like it if they could put arenas in Vanilla Classic.
You keep thinking that each and everyone one of us here either does not have a title, or that we do have one, but that we only do because we bought it and were piloted.
Then in a few of your posts you claimed to know about the grind? No. You do not.
19K HKs is the best I have seen to get to R14. That is really not that much grinding. You can have 150k+ HKs and still not have the title though. So many twinked at lower levels to fill their HK count up, others got up to a high rank, then quit playing for a while. Then come back and…had to rank p again. One of my friends who has a typical job where he has to go out and work…he got stuck at R12. That was it. I got a toon to R10 with just above 5k HKs. I did it by playing a few AVs, did not get into the turtles, only did the capping and we went for the rush. If 100% of everyone on your team all rushes to the very end, NO one goes anywhere to cap anything, and then you treat it as a raid…it is possible to get AV done with 0 HKs and only honor and rep that you get.
AB on the other hand it the best to farm out for R14.
it was 0% premading from R11 - R14 and 30% pugging.
I already said about the premades several times in this thread.
I play this game to play with other people so solo garbage is incredibly boring, feels nothing like “Vanilla”, and doesn’t do it for me at all. This is an MMORPG after all. I can’t imaging mostly playing for something as shallow and petty as gearing. Gear is a tool so you can do better with the team and that’s IT.
Here’s part of a 2020 post from me a few weeks after the grind on the druid:
I know about the grind because I have a toon sitting with gear/weapons without the rank obviously. They need to get rid of decay completely tbh but its not terrible now its just not good still.
It was an absolute insanity of a grind and that right there is why I say you never hit r14 back then. It is a GRIND right now with a full time job and its only 418-500k caps. What are you on about? 50+ hours a week is A LOT. What world do you live on where playing as much as you literally work OR more isn’t a lot
You are one of those people who thinks that every top guild out there is ran by a bunch of 400 pound neck beards who live at home with their mom and dont have a job. That every person who has ever gotten a Cutting Edge in retail ever, or who has gotten any Keystones done on any difficulty, or who has gotten any form or any retail PvP title only did so because they are some 500 lbs neckbeard without a job. Well. I’m here to tell you, that is not the case. Men and women both have gotten to R14 in Classic WoW. And have a life outside of the game as well.
What does this have to do with anything I said about the grind?? There is factual information about the amount of time it took to grind R14 not mention the plethora of streams and videos of it actually taking place throughout wows history…
The grind was so bad that blizzard finally completely changed the system because it was such a toxic and unhealthy system. They acknowledged that and moved on and you’re argument is that it “wasn’t that hard”? You can’t have it both ways but it was either hard or it wasn’t.
Lots of people play those kind of hours gaming in general, I get that. The amount of hours required to hit r14 back then was just down right absurd.
