Sure, don’t let the door hit you on the way out, let the adults have the actual conversation.
Ad Hominem fallacy
You don’t even know what an ad hominem fallacy is lol.
Attacking/belittling the opposing discussion individual in place of better reasoning/evidence.
You can’t make a point, which is why every post you’ve made so far has been completely illogical and now you’re going to start insulting me as an individual
This is pretty typical for the losing side
1 Like
Projection…
You’ve yet to demonstrate you’re even casually interested in debating the actual point.
I made a point, argue it, instead of this wasteful blabbing because you enjoy feeling [falsely] superior in arguments over game stuff.
If you need me to reiterate clearly for you, I can.
As horde, you couldn’t just rank to 14 in AV from March 2020 - Dec 2020. The queues were too long making it impossible on any server not named Sul’thraze.
It seems weird to argue this reality but that poster clearly wants to flat out ignore certain things because that’s the “easy way out”.
Affirming the consequent and lack of proof isn’t a point.
You won’t let go of that one, but you know it’s true
Argument by repitition - fallacy
It’s true, I was alliance, and the queues were close to instant, so you very well may have the only substantial point in counter: it depended on your faction.
My point is that as much as it CAN require effort, it doesn’t really have to.
- You can AFK AV to rank 14, that’s literally what the AV meta permits. Having played in Classic, I couldn’t have ranked to 13 by being AFK as horde on a medium-sized server with +/- 900K caps in P3 ish and it wasn’t COMMON to see anyone AFK-rank. Queues were too long, games were too long. It is vastly more prevalent now on Era with the new ranking system. Is it the majority? Probably not. But having played many many AVs in the last two months, the number of people I see full out afk is pretty incredible. If you work from home, you queue AV, you click enter battle when it pops, you do your work stuff and you sit afk on noob hill, in a tower, at a GY, in stealth, in base etc. You sit afk you can do laundry, watch a movie, do some chores, maybe a little workout. You can even rank two characters at once.
- You can also farm bots to 14, although that does require some effort unless you have someone killing them for you.
- You can also use a botting software, although I’ll admit that’s not common (that I can see, anyway) so maybe we can ignore that one for now.
I will add though, it can be pretty effortless, as long as not everyone else does so. Obviously the fact that you can sit afk and leech honor is based on the fact that other people are playing game.
I also don’t think it’s a good thing at all, depending on what your motivations are. For players that want to play the game, and not just mindless gear collectors, it’s not a good thing. For the other side, obviously it’s a good thing. Ranking with very little effort has never been easier. You can rank now and multi-task and dedicate very little attention to the game, which I guess is good for people’s personal life and overall balance, just really bad for the quality of the game itself.
1 Like
That’s not what’s happening here, and if you would be so kind to stop assuming the worst intention here.
Let’s start over.
The point I’m trying to make here is that while it’s clear that anybody can acknowledge that the r14 grind is “easier” from a few objective measures, the change was actually very minor from a reward structure and intention POV. You earn it in much the same way you did before the change: by playing a lot and without disruption over the course of many weeks. You don’t have to be good in either system. Just play. A lot.
There are pros and cons to both rank point distribution systems, arguably quite a few more cons to the old one, as there are any systems, but ultimately it’s a wash and neither one really bubbles up as “more skillful” than the other.
You are either keen on effort-based rewards, which r14 has always been, or you aren’t and wish it were a skill-based one, which it never has been.
The notion that solo-queue ranking or AV ranking to r14 was impossible is not true either, and I know that factually. There’s plenty of good examples you can even look up on content sites like Youtube of people who got all the way without premades and just queueing BG solo. I once did several weeks in bracket 3 and 2 without a premade and managed to move forward and not decay in Classic 2019 just by solo-queuing in WSG (though I was a druid to be fair). It was 100% possible, and you are over-estimating the requisite need for premades in the old system.
I don’t disagree. It’s easier because the cap is fixed. I think the difference is that the player base is just different. I am speculating when I say that maybe it did open the floodgates to a lot of people that want to get gear/title but didn’t want to deal with queuing AB/WSG in classic/era, playing in a team/premade, or facing a team/premade. I may not have been clear, the ranking system is not bad, I think the player base is.
I also agree - I primarily solo-queue ranked to r13 on horde on EF in AQ ish phase. Although, it was impossible to just rely on AV, or any BG for that matter as a solo queue. Weaving all three was optimal, and I think that’s what lacks in this system. It was also significantly more effort. I couldn’t really AFK in WSG or AB, especially if my team of pugs had a shot of winning, and I needed the marks.
The fact that AB and WSG are ghost towns at the moment somehow needs to be addressed. On one hand, I like to queue those other BGs, but I also know that whenever I do, there’s always some ranker that complains the whole time and is basically AFK keyboard warrior crying about having to play the game the whole time. Again, player-issue. So I’m sort of happy those players are mostly confined in a BG that I enjoy a little less, and salty the others players that like me enjoy these other BGs are far and few and not queuing
1 Like
This is my first post in this thread which focused on “easier by time spent” and was an answer to the OP:
I’ve never claimed or said that getting R14 alone took skill, especially since sand ranking was a thing for a while on Era.
What I’ve said several times is that getting to R14 typically before had more of a focus on community aspects of the game and what I don’t like about the change is that it’s stripped these away.
You boiled this down to “You like to play on premades” which is too simplistic.
I play this game for the people. I’ve found that over time Retail has lost this as mattering, so to me, it’s VERY important for one version of WoW to still be about playing with other people.
This is Era that should NOT be changed mind you, to retain what made it good.
I’ve also said over and over that networking and social skills are important for a quality game. If you’re the biggest jerk in the game who is great at pushing buttons but has no clue how to be a team player or work with others then you are NOT an asset to this game but instead a detractor to the game. That type of person just makes WoW toxic.
I think that you’re the lone wolf type who considers yourself to be highly skilled. That’s why you aren’t answering what I’m actually saying in any of this. You also place NO value on the community part of “Vanilla” WoW.
As a horde solo getting to R14 from March 2020 - Dec 2020 in AV WAS impossible.
You are correct that some people ranked to 14 solo (horde by triple queuing) but that was even more time-consuming. That was the 18-hour days on most servers. in my opinion, having a carrot that makes you consider playing with others in AN MMORPG is an asset.
100%, I would agree era has a slightly different community than Classic 2019 and obviously OG vanilla.
You won’t get any arguments from me about the need for change on the incentives to do WSG and AB, I mean those BIS tabards are basically a pipedream at this point for my current Era character and I think that’s rather silly, as are the decent rep rewards (which I may no longer even care about at this point thanks to other sources).
2 Likes
I can get behind this as well
Hopefully blizzcon delivers
Same.
I want blizzcon to announce something for people who actually get what made classic good.
IMO Zipzo absolutely both does not understand what actually made the game good and has no desire to.
Sadly I don’t expect Blizzard to deliver.
1 Like
I default it to a disappointment, but i can always hope
2 Likes
Yep, same.
TBH I’m prepared to walk for a while though. 
Also, just to go to the other post I agree with the statement of changes to WSG and AB to make them more played again (and always have) but that poster keeps skipping what I’m really trying to say in their replies and it’s annoying. I guess I’ll just see that part as trolling. I know you and Hitoki get it and also that ultimately it doesn’t matter.
1 Like
I low-key don’t have a lot of faith, nor in blizzard, nor the player base.
I think the players that made classic as “good” mostly moved on to other things tbh, and classic was only as good as it was because of the pandemic.
I think about the way Era is now, it’s all players that see the game as gear collecting, with little motivation to play it. I understand it’s a forever server in P6, which is pretty OP, but there’s nothing stopping people from playing the version of the game we like to think we enjoy, yet no one that claims to like this plays it.
But maybe I’m just having one of those days and I’m dooming.
Sry for detracting from the OP.
1 Like
The best way to get people to play AB/WSG is to have more Rank 14s. The best way to do that is to get rid of decay. More pvp geared people = more pvp. Imagine that. People don’t want to be pug stomped by full R14 teams. If they had equivalent gear they didn’t have to buy on sketchy websites with real life money you would have more pvp. You guys make this more difficult than it needs to be. No decay = more PvP.
What does this even mean?
How do you even feel like you have the authority to declare this to a person who’s played the game since 2004? Whatever my reasons are, just because they are different from yours that has led me to play so long doesn’t mean my reasons are invalid.
WoW was/is “good” to different people for an invariable number of different reasons.