I was honestly quite alright with Outlaw being on the button mashy side. What I’m not alright with is the pure RNG the class lives through (Most classes honestly). And all the constant buff/debuff watching. Like good lord.
On the op side of things, I’m glad people are seeing an issue now. I was exhausted a month after I returned when DF dropped. Right away I knew the classes just felt wrong. I’ve still yet to find anything that feels right.
If you need clarification, by “People like you” I mean people who say things like, " either play a caster or try FFXIV." I’m aware I can do something else. I don’t want to do those things. I want more choices.
By Dragon, I mean I play a devoker, not FFXIV. I could not make it past level 18 in FFXIV as it felt like I was playing a running and reading short passages simulator, and not actually a game with fighting, abilities, or mechanics.
You’re not the only one that has that issue with ARR. That’s been easily the MOST common complaint about it even from a vets trying to play alts. Even after the pruning to the ARR questline from a few patches ago it’s definitely still absurdly bloated. But if you can stomach your way to 50, the game has been VASTLY improving since the first expansion. Hell, you can even just boost to 50, which is significantly cheaper than WoW boosting at only $10
old outlaw, high APM, i loved it, i am a totally tapper and enjoy it.
new outlaw, high KPM, i hate it, i dont enjoy spinning plates while playing piano.
So many weak auras needed for this stupid spec.
Not bad. I might give it a shot sometime soon before 10.1 Thanks.
Which is why ret is instantly massively popular aside from class fantasy. Many people are tired of doing no damage outside of cooldowns, having to spend several seconds setting up before doing any real damage or tracking a million things like with unholy DK you’re tracking two resources, 9 cooldowns, up to 3 diseases but really just 1, and festering wounds on top of defenses, interrupts, etc.
There’s use for complicated specs, but there’s too few that don’t just do reasonable damage when you press buttons.
I’m not familiar with KPM but I assume that’s keystrokes?
Legion was better in terms of class design, yeah I think so.
Class fantasy as well.
We just didn’t know how good we had it, at the time. Those nice things we had were just temporary.
Close.
APM, actions per minute.
KPM, keys per minute.
not keystrokes, but the actual amount of different keys.
Yeah I definitely see the issue there. I have a 70 397 ilvl enhancement shaman and the KPM has been my #1 issue with consistent performance. 12 bloody rotational buttons PLUS Spirit Wolves and Ancestral Blast or whatever it’s called, I didn’t pay attention to the name.
Especially when literally everything is on a several second CD and if you mess up the priority even once you quickly lose a LOT of DPS.
That’s my #1 beef with DF’s classes. You shouldn’t need a third party addon to play your class at a standard confidence. All the procs/buffs should feed into the UI in a way that allow you to ease into an already large amount of “button watching.”
I understand mods are there to help, but they shouldn’t be critical. None of them should. We’ve reached critical point and it peeves me off big time.
Then all this multiplicative scaling. Like come on Blizz. FF is leaning in the same direction and players are getting tired of it. Leave the 1-2 minute burst window stuff for PvP.
My Brewmaster here is running 39 keybinds for Mythic Raszageth.
Burst windows are cool. The problem is it’s like 80/20 burst/regular rotation instead of 20/80 in damage profiles.
39? That’s laughable they would let any spec get that bad.
Warrior seems pretty bad too.
I agree the button bloat is crazy and unnecessary, I love playing around passives and uptimes on buffs but having 30 different buttons is annoying.
Class design as a whole is probably getting close to too complicated, but it depends on the content you are doing and your spec. At least for now I don’t think we are at the stage where its too complicated. But with the talent additions, if they slap anything else on top of that its gonna be hell.
I’d say its ok for now but its close to being unapproachable for new players
I totally agree with this, but I’m not qualified to respond to the rest except to say that I only do gathering and no crafting because of the complication issues you’ve outlined.
That’s what I meant really. Just need time to learn the proper terminology.
Ramp up is becoming a rather real thing as well. Used to be a Disc Priest thing. Now it’s a darn near everyone thing. We went from blow trinket, blow cooldown, blow x to… align ability A, wait for proc B, get lucky with proc C, align ability D, make sure ability E is active, etc etc.
Nah man horribly wrong opinion that you have which is likely fueled by nostalgia.
Legion was horrible in the gameplay department. Legion Legendaries and Artifact Power were the absolute worst iterations of borrowed power to ever exist in WoW, yes, even worse than Azerite and even worse than Covenants.
You’re also likely blinded by patch 7.2.5 which unlocked max AP gain across account or patch 7.3.5 where you could finally just get the legendary you wanted.
If you wanted to be any good in your spec, you needed to donate all AP you gained through 7.0-start of 7.2 into the final trait of your artifact, which gave a flat % increase in performance where the players who did donate every piece of AP to this trait were reaching 20%+ increased damage or healing compared to the base trait of 10%
Legion Legendaries were so fundamentally poorly designed that some specs were just not even worth playing without a specific RNG drop that in some cases, increased damage or healing by as much as 30%. Until 7.3.5 you had to grind your face against all forms of content hoping you’d get the right drop.
Legion had a cool story, class halls were cool, the settings we were in were cool, but that was the only thing that Legion had going for it. It was one of the WORST expansions to play as every aspect of the gameplay was just frustrating
SMF shold be a mog option and not a talent choice.