I wasn’t arguing that a huge portion of horde weren’t against sylvanas… I was arguing that the guy I was replying to was trying to say 95% of horde were all on board with this. :\
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Is anybody else struggling with the War Crime simulator that is Horde Side Assaults right now?
Not really. If anything I’m more sad that I can’t go to the Alliance’s homes and set their children ablaze.
Its a video game. Its not real. I feel disconnected from all of my characters because they are not real. If its making you feel bad then stop playing it.
Exactly this. Even as an avid Roleplayer, there’s points where you just shut up and accept the game for what it is.
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You guys know that from the Horde’s perspective, it’s the Alliance that’s evil, right? We’re all heroes of our own stories. You guys are literally running around in purge squads in Vol’dun killing our fuzzy bois, what’d they ever do to you? Nisha is going to wear your skulls as hats.
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They aren’t purging anymore, Blizzard walked that back, and now it’s just scaring off the Vulpera and burning the supplies… which still leaves the Vulpera with nothing… not much better… but still.
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The Soldier?
From an army that destroyed its forests, cities, population, sacred sites and is helping to depredate nature! It is not a civilian being impaled by Malfurion on a wall, in front of his children, in his own hometown!
But the goals and actions of the alliance nun and the Horde paladin are opposite!
The noble nun is trying to save lives of soldiers and civilians to the best of their abilities.
She is in a land that is suffering from the actions of the horde, helping a people that the Lich Queen has decided to die to quench their delusions of supremacy!
The paladin of the Horde? She is helping to promote the devastation that is plaguing Darkshore!
I remember how it was a forest full of trees, which now is full of poison through the glades and with devastated forests!
She is invading a foreign land and helping to kill soldiers, civilians and any other people who are there! she is not there, helping the needy and helpless! She is there, to aggravate the situation of these people!
The nun wants to save civilian lives!
The paladin wants to extinguish lives!
Malfurion has the right, and need, to slaughter her!
Did the night elves do anything different than the orcs would do if an unknown, strange-looking people entered their lands and gathered their resources and disturbed the sanctity of their sacred sites?
But those were not even the worst that happened!
That was a misunderstanding!
But then, the irresponsibility and inconsequence that characterize many of the problems that persecute the horde, manifested itself with Grommy drinking the blood of Mannoroth and the second time, (knowing how terrible that would be for his people) to be able to kill Cenarius, who joined to struggle to perceive the vestigial corruption that pervaded the orcs and confound them with demons!
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It was a valid question. It’s not being harsh when helping an insurgency (especially one you know little about) if putting them in power is going to be a bad move or not. You don’t know if they’re going to be bad or worse than the current regime you’re trying to topple, and do something worse, like say turning around, joining the other faction despite saying they want to help fight for freedom and help genocide your people.
Oh wait.
He literally prevented her from enslaving all the valkyr, which in turn prevented more people from being enslaved as undead. Which, also saved us from having the last titan keeper turn against us while we were fighting the legion (you know, what the lich queen should have been focusing on instead of her personal quest to avoid being sent back to wow’s version of hell for her multitude of evils she’s done).
Moral relativism: one of the most dangerous ideas in history. When an entire group can participate in genocide (that involved burning non combatant men, women, and children alive), then turn around and say “but from my perspective, you’re evil!”
You know that you’re on the wrong side in a war…or at least you should.
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#daelinwasright
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This thread has spiralled out in many directions, but about this one specific point of ‘is it okay to take out the healer’…
There IS a fundamental difference here between real world doctors and WoW healers.
In the real world, doctors are there to save lives, and it takes time, resources, and hard work. That’s just to keep them from dying… then there’s days, weeks, months of painful convalescence, and after that, they still may not be able to return to the fight.
During all that, they’re a drain on the resources of their own side. It’s not a tactical decision to heal them, it’s a mercy. Indeed, some unscrupulous commanders in history have purposefully left injured enemies behind to hinder their foes. So ‘taking out the healer’ doesn’t make any sense, in the real world, as a tactical decision.
But it DOES in Azeroth, where they can twiddle their fingers and go ‘Ooga booga’, and a platoon of soldiers is back on their feet and roaring for blood in seconds.
Now, I didn’t see the Mistweaver quest (missed that incursion), but from the sounds of it, I would have skipped over it (bit of an RP moment for me), because it sounds like they were being presented as ‘civilians in need of help’. I help Murlocs, for Titan’s sake… I’m not out to kill all Alliance, I’m there to destroy them as a fighting force. If they’ve left the war I have no beef with them. (Not that I really have a beef with the Alliance at all… Void Lords? Planet dying? Remember that?)
But when I led the sneak attack on Astranaar? I saw that healer, and went straight for her… not only because she could heal, but because she could shoot holy fire at my head. Then the elf with me as all, oooh, targeting civilians, ha ha, stone cold, bro, high five… and I was like, really? That was a civilian?
I stopped, after that, but it didn’t make any sense ‘in the world’ to consider priests as ‘non-combatants’.
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You mean, when your side was poisoning civilians on your march to commit genocide.
Well, the innkeeper, food merchant, and various npcs selling stuff other than weapons would probably be considered civilians. Depending on what the weapon/armorsmiths did when you came in…same. But considering your side pretty much poisoned the whole town…yes, your side murdered another set of noncombatants on your long march to commit genocide.
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I’m… not sure what argument you’re trying to start.
Were you under the impression that I’m saying ‘Horde=awesome’? Horde dindu nuffin? You seem to have just assumed that because I’m pointing out that healers are not quite ‘non-combatants’ in this world, it must be because of some partisan justification.
Like, dude… this is a game where anyone can play both sides. Not EVERYTHING is about waving a flag.
Speaking of which… you do know that when you do the quest on the Horde side, all you see, and the only targets you’re supposed to hit, are the guards? You’re stealthed, and you move through the town, leaving all the civilians untouched. You DON’T kill the innkeeper, food merchant, etc. I believe the canon is that after the PC leaves, Forsaken goons show up and kill everyone.
It was step one in Blizzard’s attempt to write ‘two Hordes’.
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Honestly, when it comes to WoW, I don’t really care about story anymore. I don’t even bother to listen to it when I accept the quest. I just go, kill, move on to next quest. When I want quality RP and storytelling, I play swtor.
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I’m not sure it was so much an attempt to write “two Hordes” deliberately, as it is “we have multiple teams working on these segments and none of them talk to each other.” Heck, judging from the Alliance-side scenario with Tyrande’s ascension to the Night Warrior, they might have separate, non-communicating teams working on single storylines. Either that, or the writing team literally can’t make a logical path from a to b to c.
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Well, could be that, too.
Blizzard also has a very long history of telling contradictory stories from two sides, and then mashing ‘canon’ on one of them, after the fact. Like, I remember torching Lordaeron and killing the king in WC2… there was even a cutscene for it. But it didn’t happen.
Sometimes they do it subtly, and well. Do you remember Vol’jin’s rebellion in Mists? Horde side, he just looked like Vol’jin. Alliance side, he had flies around him, and the text mentions his bad breath. But that was ‘different viewpoints of the same thing’.
This may indeed be, ‘Horde writers wanted Horde players to think it was okay and Alliance writers wanted Alliance players to be outraged… we’ll tell you later what really happened.’
Honestly we don’t know either. In all of 8.0 the only interaction i can remember having with any Vulpera was killing a few random pirate ones in Freehold. I don’t even remember running into any in our war campaign. So yeah, Alliance players don’t know why we are doing it anymore than Horde players do.
That is one of the biggest problems with the Alliance side of the game, pretty much everything we do is just random nonsense since we don’t have an actual story line driving us forward the way the Horde does.
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So during the quest, taking the guy out who was sleeping in the building was a crappy move?
I can’t remember what he said but he had a specific line if you killed the sleeping guy
I could be wrong, but I think that rare was healing soldiers, not civilians.
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Unfortunately, no, she was tending to civilians. If you look around, you can see injured civilians all around her.
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I think it’s a MAD situation. While you fly your ship out to one of our cities, we’d drop a mana bomb on each of yours, though Blizzard is lazy and doesn’t set this up.
I’ve killed so many from every race… As a merc, a job is a job, and I’m happy I can do it for my queen.
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War… War never changes.