You’re telling people to stop min/maxing because you don’t like it. You’re telling them to instead play the game and figure things out on their own.
You’re telling them how to play. Get over yourself.
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I’m saying play the game how you want to play it and not worry about how anyone else is playing it. You are the one trying to smear to message and make me look like the bad guy. You get over yourself.
It’s really ironic; almost all your posts on the old forums are you min/maxing and asking for advice on the forums.
Why should someone take the Whirlwind axe? To min/max?
If you don’t want to min/max… that’s fine. You probably won’t reach the higher end raid content… and you know what… that’s also fine. You make your own goals, not anyone else. Most players will quit long before Naxx. In my experience, AQ 40 seems to be the end of the road more than anywhere else, for guilds. MANY guilds will tire out after wiping to Cthun for the 50th time. Even if they kill it, they’ll say, “that’s it, we’re done, good work everyone. If you want to keep raiding, you can now put a Cthun screenshot on your next app.” But no one is forcing you to do 100% content in the game. No one is forcing you to raid in the first place. You can quit any day, and most players will quit long before the end.
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Yeesh dude.
Or if you were super cool you went the middle route and got the hammer. (Which isn’t unique because it shares its model with quite a few different weapons.)
Hey Look! It’s my comment!
It’ll be bis for humans early on
Damn I really do got some fans out here don’t I? You’re so fascinated with me you checked out my old posts? Wild. I’m flattered.
You still don’t get it do you? My point is play the game the way YOU want to play it. If some people wanna min/max, fine. But half of them have become these elitist dbags that think that’s the only way to play, and if you don’t do what they do, you’re trash. So they make other players feel like they need to min/max too because that’s the only way to be good. If everyone min/maxed all the damn time 2h WF shamans never would have been a thing, Arms warriors never would have been a thing because Fury is better in PvE, Reckoning bombs never would have been a thing. The whole min/maxing thing has turned a portion of the playerbase into robots.
So I’m saying if you’ve never played classic, don’t worry about min/maxing and BiS unless you’re really into that kind of thing. But it isn’t the only way to play. So if it’s not your thing, find a playstyle you enjoy and have fun with and stop worrying about BiS and min/maxing.
P.S. the Whirlwind Axe actually wasn’t BiS for everyone. There were circumstances in which the mace is better and even one situation I believe where the sword is better. But I’m not here to min/max.
Understand now?
That has literally nothing to do with what I said. Raids have lockouts in order to artificially cap progress.
Eventually, the longer a raid is around, the more attempts are made on it, and the more “casual” or “farm” it becomes. And therefore, more accessible to a larger portion of the playerbase.
For example, MC was on “farm” when Naxx was progressive content.
Given time, Naxx would have had more players try it out. But why bother when in a few months, a whole additional 10 levels of character progression, zones, reps, and gear would be available and would take hardly any effort in comparison?
The thing is, back then you had to farm the previous tier for a while to be able to do the next tier, and I heard that only 15% of people were done with BWL. So in another year, those people would probably have cleared Naxx, sure, but who else would have?
Obviously, anybody who voluntarily chose not to “min/max” would take even longer, up to a point (if you insist that everybody burn time farming “BiS” gear, that might ultimately be counterproductive if that same time could have been spent raiding).
Except naxx came out almost six months before BC did…
And what does a lockout have to do with progress? It just means you’re tied to that raid until next week at which point, you restart the zone… The point is that even a raid in full BiS gear is still going to have a hard time with naxx. There was literally no way to cheese it by trying to outgear it. Back then, the power difference between tiers wasn’t as ridiculous as it is now, so even if you had a raid with mostly T3, you’re still going to wipe your butt off on 4hm.
Hell, even at level 70, with higher ilvl gear than naxx offered, raids of people would still wipe in there over and over again on some bosses…
…SO WHAT? 1% or so of the entire population of WoW that came and went throughout the two years of vanilla were raiders, and even fewer of those were “progression” guilds.
Why is it so hard for you to imagine that it takes time to do things, when there were guilds still working through tier 1 content?
Uh huh…
Well if you fail at the mechanics of a fight you could wipe at any raid tier.
Not sure why you’re asking me why people were taking a long time to clear Naxx. People were taking a long time to clear anything.
Heck, lots of people never even made it to 60 and your begging the question about raids. 
It was also partly so common because it used to drop from the general rather than the emperor so farm runs for it were shorter.
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My point is that we are talking about BiS gear, min/maxing and how it definitely was a thing in vanilla. You would have a slim chance of even clearing BWL without doing so.
You actually don’t need BiS gear, especially for DPS.
DPS checks in Vanilla are hilariously forgiving. The hardest DPS check, Patchwerk, requires around 325 DPS from 25 players, and the top tier DPS are capable of pushing over 1000 DPS with the right consumables and buffs.
Min/maxing was absolutely a thing in Vanilla. It was a thing before Warcraft was even a RTS game.
but you could still make progress even without having the majority of your raid sitting around in BiS.
A lot of raids made progress with a lot of their members going in thinking T0 was actually a worthwhile set to collect when in reality it’s garbage for most classes.
I don’t know the percentage of Vanilla players that were raiders but of those that hit level 60, far more than 1% were raiders.
Is that so… Then how come it took days for the top guilds in the world to kill him?
If all the bosses had such forgiving dps checks, then why did only a very tiny percentage of players even kill a boss in aq40, let alone, naxx? Why were most of the “above average, but below hardcore” raiders still stuck in BWL when naxx came out a whole year later?
Lol. Ok.
There were non BiS players and offspecs at every tier in the game clearing content.
I know raiding is difficult compared to 5 mans, but it isn’t the tryhard supa-meta 5000 iq twitch game you’re making it out to be.
Because DPS gear isn’t the sole factor that holds guilds back.
Organization of raids, how well your raiders follow mechanics, etc. all plays a part.
There is no “if” on the DPS requirements. We know how much HP Patchwerk had, and we know what his enrage timer is.
It’s an extremely simple formula to figure out how much personal DPS each player needs in order to kill Patchwerk before he enrages.
According to blizzard blue posts, which you can google (one of the first few results) it was actually less than 1%.
Here’s a quote from Jeff Kaplan in May of 2006:
Q. Overall, what percentage of level 60 players do you think have killed Ragnaros?
A. I don’t have firm statistics, but my gut feeling is around 25 percent.