Interesting Mathias reports to Genn and keeps things from the current King

True, but he had good ground to do that regardless of any influence affecting him. Again, it’s speculation on my part, but if that influence was a result of willingly following the Light, then it still would’ve been in Turalyon’s character to try and slay one whom killed a Naaru.

Thank you. I typically like to bring sources, or specify something as either my opinion or just speculation where I can to avoid confusion.

That having been said, there does seem to be two predominant philosophies among the Naaru. We’ve seen this zealous side with Xe’ra, with questionable methods and single-minded purpose. It’s very militant, it has a very narrow view, and it’s very exclusionary (us vs. them, with them being anyone who doesn’t follow the Light).

The flip side to this coin is best embodied by A’dal. A’dal welcomes anyone to Shattrath, even demons or void-corrupted races like the Arrakoa. Not once had A’dal ever tried to change the views of faiths of others, but leaves it to them to decide for themselves. You had Warlocks in Shattrath assisting the forces therein. Through this, we see that A’dal embodies this general benevolent ideology of the Light, one where other forces aren’t aberrations, but which provide diversity which enriches all.

By applying these observations to new lore from the Shadowlands and using their pantheon as something of a template, A’dal very much seems to be the sort of Naaru that lives in his lane, and is fulfilling his purpose as the First Ones would have willed. He doesn’t go out of his way to conquer other cosmic powers, but focuses on aiding those in need, creating safe havens and sanctuaries.

Where Xe’ra contrasts, however, provides a certain grey line. Anyone whom can read the writing on the wall knows that if Illidan didn’t kill her, we likely would have at some point in a raid. Does this mean she’s acting much like Zovaal, and operating outside of the First One’s design? Considering we’ve no hint of other Naaru opposing her, that doesn’t seem right. If that’s the case, is her purpose more in line with, say, that of the Primus and Maldraxxus, more militant in nature?

Even then, however, the Primus is the one accredited with the creation of domination magic in the first place. It certainly seems like the sort of tool that’d fit into a militant faction’s arsenal. So, if Xe’ra is the Prime Naaru of a militant, ‘Covenant,’ (for lack of a better word), it stands to reason her arsenal would have similar weapons.

Again, that’s speculation, and we do not have enough information about what happened on Draenor with another, ‘Light Mother,’ let alone what the significance of Turalyon’s lost eye glow means. Suggesting it is a reflection is as much speculation as it is to suggest it is a mark of some kind of influence.

He’s pretty much right

They who are not but cobble on the Path of Glory should cast the first stone

Turalyon wants to mass-murder immigrants, and you think that is right.

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True.

You make some good speculations, even when there’s parts you and I don’t agree on.

Some being more militant makes sense. The other Naaru help non-combatants find safely while Xe’ra got an army of volunteers to take the fight to the Legion. I agree with your idea she’s more like the Naaru version of the Primus (imo makes it stupid that Illidan was able to one-shot her). That said, Xe’ra hypothetically had a lot of time to perfect a similar weapon to the Domination magic the Primus made… but she did not do so. Otherwise, Turalyon and Lothraxion would not have been able to disagree with or challenge her.

In Legion, several artifact quests involve a priest called Revil Kost. He has to be forced to work with warlocks and death knights (even with violence) and complains the whole time. Xe’ra didn’t make a single complaint about non-Light-using PCs (not even warlocks and Void priests).

That AU stuff was Blizzard (especially Afrasiabi) trying to have their cake and eat it too. Screw that AU mag’har scenario.

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You spelled invaders wrong.

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If you want to call immigrants invaders, that’s fine, it’s all up to you. Whatever name you prefer to call a group you feel should be stripped of all rights and murdered en masse is totally optional.

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Entirely depends on which version of the horde we’re talking about.

If it’s the demon infused mass murderers intent on global destruction? Than sure, showing no mercy is perfectly justifiable

The current horde who are trying their hardest to do better? Than no

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I sense a bit of modern politics in there…, Orcs were fully militarized when they crossed over to Azeroth, they weren’t exactly looking to be friends. It wasn’t families seeks refuge.

I wish we had a world where there were orc citizens in Stormwind, or any of the major factions and races. It’s really archaic how races are subjugated in game, with all the very modern trends.

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I don’t think there’s any intrigue. Genn outside of Gilneas is basically Anduin’s “dad” and has no real depth outside of that.

Now there could be some real drama of a Stormwind spymaster reporting to a foreign king instead of his lawful reagent, but Blizzard doesn’t like the Alliance having any inner-faction conflicts.

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I don’t even think immigrant is a word on Azeroth. The orcs came from another world with the sole intention of burning Azeroth. That’s invaders homeskillet.

If migration is a word on Azeroth (which it is), then immigration would also be a word.

Hey, I’ve already said you can use whatever word makes you feel good, chickenfluff. However you want to label a group while advocating for stripping them of their rights and killing en masse, go ahead and use that word.

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The conversation started by putting a quote made my Turalyon into the context of stripping the rights of a people and murdering them en masse. I didn’t bring modern politics into this. Take your issue back to that post.

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I mean, she didn’t really have the time. The moment she was brought back she saw Illidan and went, “Great, our chosen one! Let’s get rid of all this Fel and make you a champion of the light!” I cannot imagine she wouldn’t have gotten around to the rest of us (and re-imprisoned Alleria) given time.

I’d mind it a whole lot less if we had both sides of the story, instead of just the Mag’har’s perspective, which itself is filled with holes.

Immigrants don’t seek to commit genocide as their first act in their new home. I think the label you’re looking for here is more akin to, ‘colonizers,’ which is a strange label to slap on the Horde considering it’s races have more often than not been victims of that sort of thing, but yeah, they’re not exactly innocent of it either.

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No, I chose to use immigrant. It fits better.

A colonizer does something because it is their choice to invade and their motivation to conquer.

The orcs were manipulated by red drainos, forced into turbo-addiction, and summoned by a human with some Sargeras in him, all for someone else’s agenda. In terms of motivation, they have more in common with immigrants brought in and forced into naughty-bed-time work than colonizers.

Boiling them down to simply invaders is just unauthentic and dishonest. We know, factually, there was a lot more to their situation than that.

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Except, its not.

While the Shadow Council was in charge at first, Doomhammer wiped them out after the First War, and assumed control of the Horde. At that point, the Orcs were entirely within their own power to act. So, did they decide, “Hey, this new land is lush and there’s enough here for us to live on, let’s stop the genocide and build our new home?”

No.

They chose genocide. Doomhammer, chose genocide.

Colonizers.

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At which point, where were the orcs?

Oh right, already on Azeroth. And like… Still addicted. And not exactly with any other real options, because a simple apology and walk home was never going to happen for either side because the war was already well and fully committed.

I like how people forget all of that entirely. It’s not at all dishonest arguing.

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Haven’t forgotten a thing.

The Orcs weren’t being supplied extra demon’s blood. The effect of the demon’s blood simply had not worn off at that point.

Likewise, the Orcs had invaded Azeroth in part because Draenor was dying by their actions. The average Orc didn’t know anything about demon masters. They thought they were securing a new homeland for themselves. Only the Shadow Council and the Warchief were really aware of the demons.

So, they destroy Stormwind, and the Shadow Council is removed. Doomhammer had two options here: Build a home for himself and his people and attempt diplomacy, or commit genocide to secure his people’s place on the world.

He committed genocide.

The Orcs were colonizers.

If you need any more proof to that, WoD pretty much proved how the demon blood had no real effect on the choices of the orcs anyways. Even without it, they still chose genocide, still chose to be colonizers.

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Sure.

If you’re going to ignore the canonical lore and the order of events, then sure.

The orcs were colonizers.

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The Warcraft 1 and 2 horde are a lot of things. Sympathetic isn’t one of them.

At the end of the day, they were still an invading army intent on genociding the natives of Azeroth

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