Interesting Mathias reports to Genn and keeps things from the current King

Genn Greymane says: You’re certain it was him?
Master Mathias Shaw says: My agents in Ratchet confirmed it. He was seen buying supplies.
Genn Greymane says: Why Kalimdor? Why wouldn’t he return home to Stormwind?
Master Mathias Shaw says: I don’t know. But he was traveling south.
Master Mathias Shaw says: Must have noticed my people on his tail. He lost them in the Barrens.
Genn Greymane says: South… What could he be after?
Genn Greymane says Send word to Jaina. She’ll want to know where he’s headed.
Master Mathias Shaw says: You don’t want to go after him yourself?
Genn Greymane says: If he’s staying away, he must have his reasons. We need to trust him.
Master Mathias Shaw says: Should I inform Lord Commander Turalyon?
Genn Greymane says: No. Not until we know more. Let’s keep this quiet, Spymaster.
Master Mathias Shaw says: It will be done, King Greymane.


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Hmm there is already a thread about this topic and I think you have not elaborated anything new to set your thresd apart from the previous one so to give you the benefit of the doubt
What is so intriguing? Care to elaborate? Otherwise would be wise to use the previous thread it can give you some insight in the vision of others posters here.


Game tries hard to make everyone care about Anduin.


I found it interesting.

Turalyon not really in charge.

Why would Shaw take this to Genn and not Turalyon? Why does Shaw call Genn King when he relinquished the throne to Tess? I’m confused.

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The conversation takes place before the retaking. Or you could argue it’s a reflex.


Perhaps Shaw doesn’t trust Turalyon or merely trusts Genn more?

The conversation occurs before Gilneas is retaken.


The general sentiment I’ve seen is that Genn is more of a second father-figure to Anduin, and that’s the reason behind approaching Genn first. Leaving Turalyon in the dark seems to be more a matter of not dropping, “irrelevant,” information in his lap. Basically, sighting Anduin doesn’t mean anything if he’s not making his way home.

Personally, I’d say this feels like some clumsy set up for the, “Light Bad, Turalyon Raid Boss,” crowd.


Turalyon doesn’t really know Anduin.


That whole “Light Bad, Turalyon Raid Boss” idea is nonsense. Ever since he returned, we’ve only seen him get more open-minded, not less.

  1. He disagreed with Xe’ra on Alleria’s Void use in “A Thousand Years of War” and “Legion”.
  2. He accepted Alonsus Faol as still being the same person even as undead in BfA.
  3. His “let the Light guide us, not command us” speech to Anduin.
  4. He had no problem with Worgen when finding out about them.
  5. His “fair fight” approach to conflict with the Horde, especially Liadrin, despite his last encounter with them.
  6. His acceptance of Void elves despite all the Black Empire shennanigans in BfA.
  7. Accepting working with the Dracthyr despite no experience with them.

Some people are so desperate to see him as a villain, they paint his reasonable wariness of dragons based on past knowledge (wanting a means to see through their visages based on what happened with Deathwing, Nefarian and Oynxia) as sinister.

Blizzard has a real “tell, don’t show” problem with writing, especially where characters like Turalyon are concerned.


No disagreement there.

I just wouldn’t put it past Blizzard to write him off as evil so that Anduin can look better.


I wouldn’t put it past them either.

More and more writers these days can’t do religious characters well, or at least without making them evil, weak and/or stupid.

Turalyon is not “Alliance Garrosh”, there was proper setup for Garrosh’s villainy (hotheaded, a lot to prove, his regular clashes with Varian). Turalyon has nothing like that.


Who wrote the scene chose Genn. I really think there’s only two possibilities. A) the writer really didn’t think it through. B) it was meant to show that.Turalon isn’t really in charge. Sadly, the possibility of A) does limit importance.

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Same reason that Barrack Obama is still addressed as President. Or the Danish Queen t hat recently abdicated to her daughter is still referred to as Queen.

An abstract concept known as … courtesy.

  1. He had no problem with Xera imprisioning Alleria and forcefully converting her back to the light, ‘for her own good.’

  2. He was perfectly okay with using the light to shackle a young woman as Alleria scrambled her mind in front of her kids.

I know the good outweighs the bad. But the bad is really really heavy with horrific implications.


For me alleria is the more dangerous windrunner sister, Sylvanas had to go through horrific traumas to star doing some questionable things while alleria and her husband always were the kind of ppl that the end justify the means.

And next expansion we’ll be alot closer to those 2, let us hope I was wrong or not, for me alleria can go full void mode i’ll gladly put her down, there can only be one true windrunner.


You’re completely correct that that Turalyon’s done nothing but grow since he came back, and I have no idea where this idea of him being basically one step from becoming Yrel 2 is coming from. That being said I absolutely believe that’s a direction Blizzard will take him despite no past characterization matching it, because they do nonsensical character swerves like that all the time (like Yrel!).


There’s some doubt to how much he was in his right mind at the time. In the cutscene where Xe’ra dies, Turalyon’s eyes fade from their golden hue, indicating that some kind of hold she had over him was broken.

Context in this is important. Turalyon used the light to shackle the orc mother and human smuggler father Alleria was interrogating to prevent them from hurting themselves by lashing out in agony from having the void rip knowledge from their minds. Basically, they were a danger to themselves and those around them. Neither Turalyon nor Alleria took any joy from what they were doing, either.

You’ll never hear me say that what happened to the orc mother/human smuggler father in that novel was good or remotely justifiable. That said, that’s what I like about the characterization of Alleria and Turalyon in those novels. They’re not perfect mary-sue type characters like Anduin, or full blown two-dimensional mustache twirling villains like Garrosh or Sylvanas.

Flaws in characters are good things, and we’ve seen how their history as soldiers, a history of constantly fighting losing battles, shaped them in a way to bring victory despite the odds. If a bronze dragon allowed for modern Turalyon and Alleria to meet their past selves from before the Second War, the past versions would no doubt be as horrified as Sylvanas, “Good,” soul fragment was at the actions of the Banshee Queen. The only difference is, I believe their past selves wouldn’t outright reject what they became as monsters, but acknowledge they had the capacity to become that.

My main issue with people trying to paint Turalyon as some zealot looking for an excuse to go crusading for the weekend, is that it’s just not how he is presented. Turalyon is very interested in peace, and does not want the Light to control him ever again, even if he still believes in it. He’s open minded, willing to change his stance when new information comes to light, and determined to make the world a better place.

Turalyon isn’t going to start a war with the Horde, but he’d sure as hell finish one.


If he can be manipulated by the light to that extent that he is no longer in contol of his own mind. Then that’s no different than any other corruption and his faith makes him succeptible.

He’s no different than any other character manipulated by an outside force. Stop believing the Light is inherently benevolent because this proves it’s not.

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You’re not wrong, but I think you’re ignoring one key component here: he’s free now. He knows it can happen, understands what it is like. Even while controlled/manipulated by Xe’ra, however, he still managed to plead for Alleria to be spared death.

Much with the Forsaken maintaining free will from the Lich King, or Alleria avoiding succumbing to the whispers, I imagine Turalyon and probably most of the Lightforged now have the experience to avoid falling under the control of the Light like that again. Mind you, that’s purely speculation, but it makes sense in the context of the way other cosmic powers have had this effect thwarted.