It used to be a critical part of dps too until Blizzard (rightfully) decided it was unfun to have to manage that as a dps.
There’s certainly more skill expression when it comes to healing and mana conservation and I think having that skill-gap between healers is a good thing, but I really hate all metas revolving around drinking and dampening. Would rather wins be decided by tactical mistakes instead of mana at 9 minutes.
Which is why having spells and abilities that allow healers mana bar to be punished for mistakes is exactly something you should be behind.
Lets put it this way. Which seems better.
Option A – Someone makes one mistake and is dead in the span of a 2 second infernal stun with no counterplay.
Option B – Someone makes a mistake and now their healer had half their mana bar taken away by the enemy team.
Option A its just over with no chance to come back. Option B you at least get a chance to recover but the pressure is on because if you don’t make a play somewhere you will oom faster than the enemy.
Idk about you but option B sounds like a much healthier pvp setting than A.
Option A is way better from my perspective. Losing to mana never feels good, ever. Losing in some RMP go that you could’ve outplayed but didn’t with an immediate “go next” is always preferred to me.
not jumping into the above conversation, just thought id reply to this
i agree that making plays and counterplays is a much more enjoyable gameplay experience, so i understand the sentiment of your example, but not all classes are created equal
the amount of counterplay i have as rsham vs rmp is nearly non-existent, but its completely different playing mw or rdruid vs rmp, theres actually things im able to do
rsham is basically a target dummy for rmp lol
I guess it’s fair to have a difference if opinion. I’ve never subscribed to the idea that any small mistake should result in a brutal insta-loss with no counterplay and felt things tended to be fairer when punishes hurt but only the most critical of mistakes could result in an insta-loss.
Yeah, totally. But that’s easily solvable with changes. Blizzard just needs to think play/outplay gameplay is worth balancing towards.
I’d say it’s a matter of perspective. “The most critical of mistakes” isn’t some defined thing. As you get better, you just learn what those critical mistakes are and you make sure you don’t do them. But yeah, I don’t know, losing to mana just always feels bad to me.
I would actually disagree as I feel its much easier, although some can change based on setting. For example…
Run behind a pillar chasing 1 enemy into his full team and now you are LoS of your healer? This is a critical mistake.
Overlapped a pair of CDs? In coordinated play this should be critical, in uncoordinated play like RSS not so much.
Accidently took 1 step to far from a pillar? This should be punishable but not a critical you insta-die from insane burst in a global punish like can happen now.
The high burst metas make what should be small mistake absolutely brutal which imo isn’t healthy.
I mean, this doesn’t happen though. So, I don’t know how to respond. If you’re just saying healers shouldn’t be able to die to bad positioning I disagree heavily. Positioning is a huge part of healing.
I mean I can go to youtube and get vid after vid of high level players dying/killing in a global. It isn’t that hard to find so denying its happening is a really weird thing to do.
As for healers getting punished for bad positioning I literally said it should be punishable, but not at the “dead in a global” level of punish.
That’s… not what you said. You said someone stepping one step too far and getting insta globalled. There’s an absolute ton more nuance to it than that. Did they prehot? Were their cds up and he did that? Was stun DR down and he went out against rmp? There are a lot of different levels of mistake that can be made. And each one has different levels of punishment.
Again, this very rarely happens (which is why the game is insanely damp right now at high levels, nobody ever dies) but why not?
So if you noticed my first “critical mistake” was also an issue of poor positioning, IE chasing an enemy team around a pillar to line your healer. That is a critical positioning mistake, but simply stepping out a little to far from your pillar isn’t even close to that level, however, both tend to be punished in the exact same way and to the exact same extent.
Let’s compare this to a sport for illustrate it further. Say football, American football not soccer just to be clear, in which the quarterback can make a mistake. One mistake can be misreading coverage resulting in an interception, that’s a huge mistake. The other can be misreading a blitz and taking a sack for X yards loss. Both are similar mistakes, misreading the defense, but each has a different degree of punishment associated with it.
Taking an extra step or two isn’t some big almost comical failure, like chasing around a pillar is, and yet they become equally punishable because of the current state of the game. That doesn’t make sense to me.
I agree with your overall point, we just disagree that this actually exists to the extent you’re implying it does:
These two things aren’t even remotely equally punishable in any game I’ve played, personally.
Same which I why I wonder they still allow drinking.
I mean we are talking about making it fun again for healers…trust me…this will not make it more fun… Had this in legion with the DH mana burn spec and that was the worst thing ever. Right now to me the mana cost is already too high. In 3s you are basically looking for drinks every chance you get and it kinda sucks
You are literally talking to someone who started in TBC and dealt with all of these abilities, including having to deal with a Viper Sting insta-cast punish for even exposing myself to a hunter for a split second and knowing I couldn’t remove it no matter what I did.
Yes back then I remember raging at that and being pissed, I was also less knowledgeable about why those abilities where important. Many years and expansions later and seeing the abomination that is dampening making healing a job for only masochists I can safely say I would rather being in a lobby with 5 other hunters who are able to stack their viper stings on me than dampening. At least then I’m fight against actual players using abilities to challenge me instead of having to fight against the game itself punishing me for doing my job.