When exactly? You just said that you don’t do keys. Which is the entire point of everyone’s gripes. This is specifically a mythic plus problem that you are oblivious to because you don’t do mythic plus.
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Of course you can get full use of D&D in LFR. Most mechanics cant kill you.
However If you look at there profile they have enough honorable kills that they should know that in PvP D&D cleave is a bad mechanic because 99% of the time it will be a wasted GCD. From there they should be able to extrapolate that a high movement environment like PvP is analogous to the issues in M+.
They are being disingenuous or just not engaging critically.
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More non reading I see.
This was in reference to playing in cata. So you either didnt read or or you did and intentionally tried to change it to I was talking about retail. Which was it?
Talking about Cata, maybe if you didnt have people on ignore you wouldnt be arguing in bad faith working on limited information.
You missed 99.9999% of what was said, you should shut it unless you are getting the full picture. Talk about a disingenuous troll you are.
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That’s fair criticism I acted poorly and fell into the trap of assuming the worst because of the interactions I’ve had with Kelliste. I’ll do better and actually get full context before responding to things related to them from now on.
Having now read every word they and others have written in one sitting I feel affirmed in my opinion that they refuse to critically engage.
In this case they are ignoring that Exodius’s primary complaint is with rotational friction and not directly with having to use set up to do AoE at all, and then goes on to act dismissively by claiming he wants what a paladin is rather than for DKs to be improved.
They also miss use the definition of Science for some reason? Science is the process of gaining accurate verifiable information it is both to find flaws and possibilities.
Edit:
Blaitra I looked into your profile. At the time of this edit You have 0 posts, 1 reply, 7 topics viewed, 2 minutes of viewing time and you profile and comment to me are both around 2hrs old meaning you made the profile just to respond to me. Are you Kelliste on an alt/trial account or a friend of theirs? Your criticism is still valid but what even are you doing? Very cringe behavior.
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Science is looking for flaws, not confirmation. Thats the purpose of retesting to find the flaws in any given hypothesis and testing.
No, im not ignoring anything. They specifically listed a bunch of paladin stuff which says “paladin has all these things so the DK should have them too”.
Its with him wanting to just press a button and do aoe.
This entire argument is “let me press a button and just aoe like paladin and demon hunter” it absolutely has to do with setup. They didnt use Warrior as an example… why not? Is it because you have to use another ability to cleave with single target abilities? The only difference with warrior and DK is that you dont have to be in a pretty large circle in order for cleave to happen.
But again, everything is going to be doing aoe damage for Frost. Obliterate + cleaving strikes aoe, Frost Strike through Shattered Frost, auto attacks through Icy Death Torrent, Obliterate again through Arctic Assault, BoS, Frostscythe, Howling Blast through Rime and add on avalanche, remorseless winter. A lot of those abilities are “press button - do aoe”.
And yes, that was my alt because you have been talking a bunch of crap behind a block while also not getting full context of anything.
What is cringe is you are talking about someone, how they are arguing in bad faith, not seeing anything they are saying, then getting what others say wrong just to push your “everyone should hate Kelliste” narrative while you actually argue in bad faith. Werent you the one to bring up what my character has done in a poor attempt to discredit someone when talking about lore? THATS CRINGE. Talking about someone on your block is cringe.
How about you just shut up about me? Eh? Dont even acknowledge someone on your block, it makes you look like a weak willed bully that cant handle any deserving backlash. So shut up about me. How about that?
You make it very hard to ignore you like I want to because you are constantly interacting with and derailing discussions I want to be a part of. I’ll probably unblock you because its just too hard to keep track of posts with how much space you take up in anything that gets popular.
I think this is in reference to when I initially blocked you because you were repeatedly misunderstanding me and another guy who were saying UH as a spec could be thematically twisted to make a healing spec by repeatedly saying death magic cant heal.
It was a discussion about both lore and game mechanics on how to build a healing spec.
I was referencing your limited level of play because you repeatedly claimed absorbs and external damage reduction “Isn’t healing” when my self and others were saying they are a core part of many healers toolkit.
The intended implication was that you don’t play enough variety of content or classes/roles to be talking about what makes a healer.
I don’t hate you nor do I want others to hate you. I do find you abrasive and think the DK forum would be better if you left though and I suspect most people would agree based in no part on my words or interactions with you.
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Then stop talking about me.
You can do it without talking about me. Im also not derailing threads. People like you do because you talk about people and not what is said. The first post that you said in here was you talking about ME and that was off of another person being disingenuous of what I said. Its just character assassination attempts with you and you were the one to tell someone else to not call people idiots because it shuts down the conversation. So what exactly are you doing here?
Do you know the absolute worst place in pvp to use DnD is? Heroics.
No, you had be blocked then, you blocked be in a thread about eye color because the lore doesnt support DK eyes changing what so ever. You did talk garbage about me in the healing thread without getting the full context there either. You contributed to the “bash this person” narrative all because I said absorbs are not healing. You arent restoring health and that person was talking about the scourge necromancer from GW2 being a healer (which its not) because it gives barriers.
How do you know what I said? You had me blocked, another person in there said “I hate to be that guy but death magic in wow is the opposite and antithesis of life magic and can only heal the undead while it rots everything else”.
Absorbs and damage reduction are not healing. Its mitigation, you are mitigating the incoming damage. Healing is the restoration of lost health. Period.
Just because healers can also use absorbs and mitigate incoming damage, they still heal. They still restore lost health to others. I dont know why this was so hard to understand and I said it MULTIPLE times.
Are you that low? Like seriously? I know what makes something a healer, they heal. They have to restore health to others. They can also apply absorbs, but they all restore health. Name one healer in wow that doesnt restore health to other people and is entirely based off of absorbs and reducing the damage they intake.
People like you make me abrasive because you say abrasive stuff like
This doesnt take someone playing mythic raids and +10 to know what makes a healer. This type of thing that you said, is said by people that have no argument.
Also, in that thread you never had a conversation with me, in fact this is what you said when I quoted one of your responses…
So you had 0 clue what I was even saying in that thread either. So you dont even know the order of events that took place yet you want to talk about me? Sorry that I have a better memory than you do.
This is where you said you were going to block me because “i wasnt worth your time”
So if I werent worth your time? Why keep talking about me like you did in this thread? Hmm? This kind of garbage is why im abrasive. Its people like you, acting all holier than thou and just talking garbage behind a block. And it was THAT thread that about lore than you tried to do character assassination
Tell me, what does this have to do with lore? Thats right absolutely nothing. Its you trying to do a character assassination. How about you leave, because I have a problem with people like YOU. The way you act, the way you say one thing to people calling others idiots while being toxic yourself, its scummy and cringe.
So, if you cant handle someone else with a differing opinion than yours, get off the internet.
Multiple ways for direct healing were suggested in that thread including taking vitality from others to give to allies as well as symbiotic diseases to invigorate regeneration. The general idea was a Hot and absorb based healing spec.
I read what you said in that thread so I could get the full context of the overall conversation before I commented there.
I honestly didn’t remember that thread.
Ill own that I was super tilted when I typed that response and was only really trying to get under your skin. I obviously don’t like you.
I’m not sorry to you but do wish I acted better.
Same to you. I’m having fun and don’t want to leave.
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The only person that brought up a disease that does regeneration was you. But the other person was 100% saying absorbs were healing because details includes them as healing and was pushing this idea from the Scourge Necromancer from GW2 where GW2 has no healers.
But the scourge diseases through necromancy rot. The cosmic chart lists it as death, necromantic, undead and decay. I havent seen an the scourge or necromancers use death magic to heal the living within WoW.
Feeling is mutual, but your reasoning for you not liking me is because I disagree with some, maybe most, of your takes while I dont like you because of how you act towards me. If you cant handle someone disagreeing with your opinions and takes then go somewhere else. I dont care if people dont like my opinions and when I block someone I dont talk about them like these forums love to do.
I wasnt even going to post on that unholy healing thread because its not going to happen. Death Knights are to cause death pain and suffering. I read it, but I wasnt going to post until someone brought me up because I live rent free in these unhinged peoples heads.
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No. I openly welcome people disagreeing with me. If I’m wrong then the sooner I am proven wrong the sooner I can become right.
I’ve even conceded to you in the past on several things from lore to admitting I’ve acted poorly and I did so happily.
I dislike you because you regularly act in abrasive condescending, and uncharitable ways that I view as bad faith or a refusal to critically engage.
Like I’ve said before. You are the only bad experience I’ve had on these forums. You can try and gaslight me and tell me I’m lying like you did last time I said this, but you cant read my mind and tell me what I was thinking or feeling. Most often I feel happy when reading the forums even stuff I think is dumb disagree with or disagrees with me.
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I’m guessing you missed the latest patch notes for the beta… Now you have to cast DnD just to be able to log in on your dk.
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If you time it right and log out near a mailbox you can use one charge to log in and another to check mail.
At least we’re not shamans though, I heard they have to cancel tempest, I mean their game subscription, for a dps increase.
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Do you welcome people disagreeing with you? I really don’t know about that. People disagreeing with you is abrasive. It’s a disagreement.
Also gaslighting? Lol.
So where have I argued in bad faith? In this thread I brought up cata and tanks for a specific reason. Lore for a specific reason and I haven’t seen a single instance ok a DK eye color changing or undead eye color changing.
It’s really just entitled people thinking they deserve what they request because they buy a license to play the game monthly. They even try to say “Blizzard can do whatever they want” which Blizzard has done what Blizzard wants. When they say this they actually mean “Blizzard should do what I want so there isn’t an argument against it”.
Is cleaving strikes the problem? No. The problem is tanks. Cata has a lot of ground targeting abilities as does retail. They can be used to their fullest in cata but not DF. There are mechanics in cata during trash that has tanks move yet it’s not a problem. Tanks in DF aren’t threatened until higher M+. You could see this early on when Asmon was doing a +8 and cared about literally nothing while everyone else was dying.
Cleaving strikes sucks because of what it does to the specs in terms of balance and design aside from probably blood because Heart Strike already cleaves.
I don’t view disagreement as abrasive. I view it as interesting and engaging.
You said I lied when I said you’re my only bad experiences on these forums. Unless you can mind read that’s textbook gaslighting.
Your first three sentences are bad faith implications that I am lying about my stated feelings.
I’m sure some are entitled but most of what I saw was people asking for a thing they thought would be cool and in my case suggesting ways the lore could be expanded on to allow it. This is the lack of charitability I was talking about.
People who play tank generally want to be reasonably threatened. Changing an entire role to accommodate Cleaving Strikes would be silly so it is the problem. If you don’t like how retail plays go to classic just like how you told the OP to go play Ret.
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Make an @player macro for D&D so it drops it at your feet when you press it. Basically turns it into consecration.
But it is by its very nature.
You can see it as that but its also abrasive to your views.
Its not, or you have only spent a day on the forums. You seen other people call others idiots on here for crying out loud. That is a bad experience that you put yourself in. Its not gaslighting what so ever.
What?
They werent just saying it would be cool, they were demanding it. Give us frostmourne, give us red eyes, give us green eyes, give us 2h, give us fire dk’s. Its been years of demands.
A lot of them just want to get invites instantly.
Its not just cleaving strikes, its RoF, Blizzard, Frozen Orb, Vile Taint, Cataclysm, Earthquake, certain totems, ravager, basic casting and a lot more. What is your solution there? To make everything instant cast and remove all the ground targeted abilities? Or should they just slow down tanks?
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There’s this thing called perspective. The definition of disagreement doesn’t include anything about how one must feel about it. Even the word argument only has a qualifier of it usually being heated which implies being energetic not angry or upset.
This is coming off as you projecting your on feelings on disagreements at this point.
The first four responses are once again gaslighting.
I’ve also worked jobs that gave me burns cuts and numerous scars but don’t consider that a bad experience. If I took everything that had any negatives at all as a bad experience then living itself would be a bad experience.
Guess this is just a perspective difference. I view the majority of people with the charitability to assume they just want cool things where as you seem to see the majority as being selfish entitled and demanding. Feel free to tell me how you feel cause I can only assume based off what you’ve written.
None of those are as significant of a loss to damage as D&D getting messed up.
The primary reasons D&D cleave suck aren’t even related to tanks as much as how much any interruption to your burst faze causes a significant punishment.
If you have a ground targeted effect and send it off before your tank has stopped gathering mobs and found a spot to group them that’s a skill issue, or the tank never stops moving the pack that’s a skill issue on some ones part.
Man I hope the people who are liking my posts to you are having fun with this silly affair. Enjoy the drama friends!
Fwiw, @cursor is generally a better macro. It helps when attempting to predict erratic tanks and or starting at the back edge when things are being kited out of mechanics/affixes.
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No its not, its literally abrasive to ones views to have someone else disagree with it. Its opposing ideas. How is it not abrasive? If you go into a conversation thinking things arent going to be abrasive then you are setting yourself up.
I really dont care if someone disagrees with me, happens all the time and I dont go around reporting for trolling just for a disagreement like many on these forums do.
No they arent.
Yet they are a bad experience. They arent pleasant experiences, or even enjoyable unless you enjoy pain which would be alarming. A bad experience can have a positive outcome.
No its being on the forums watching what people have said over several expansions.
Yes, they want what they consider cool, going to the point of demanding it. Its throughout the DK forums. If its just “I think Dk red eyes would be cool…” ok? i guess. What does that do?
A lot of them arent just saying “i find green eyes cool” but instead are saying things like “darkfallen DK’s should have red eyes” while others are saying “DK eye color should change with spec” along with a multitude of others just creating individual classes instead of what a Death Knight is. Its been years upon years of demands. When people use words like “should” its a demand. How else can you take someone trying to tell Blizzard that their game should be a certain way, wishful thinking? Or is it a demand?
So there is the goal post moving. It doesnt matter about the performance the gameplay is crap. Try casting to build up resources to use rain of fire with a tank that is constantly off pulling the next pack. Unless there is something with Destro that I havent found that allows them to cast while moving or causes things to be instant, they are basically a turret that has to plant. If you want to see how bad tank movement can be just run a heroic. Yes its easy blah blah blah, but it just shows the extreme of the issues of tank movement across a wide variety of classes. They arent necessary but any new player would go into these difficulties and with how bad they actually are in terms of gameplay, it can lead to people just leaving the game entirely. The new player experience in this game is bad and is entirely skewed towards the upper players. 100%.
Yes
Is it though? What if the tank never has to stop moving and can continue to pull until they are in the difficulty level where they hit the wall and are forced to slow down? Is that a skill issue or a game design issue? I mean they did remove or are going to move a whole bunch of M+ levels right? To me that sounds like there were way too many difficulty tiers leading to bad gameplay. The higher you go the less of an issue these things are because the tanks actually have to stop and pull only around 5-8 enemies at a time.
That same person has liked my posts as well in other threads. Then there are those that just like whatever post that isnt me. Likes really mean nothing on the forums.