In Street Fighter, there is a character that cannot jump by pushing Up, instead, you have to do a Quarter-Circle+K to jump. Meanwhile other characters can jump by simply pushing Up.
Or in a FPS, there is a character that cannot jump by pushing Spacebar, instead, you have to shoot a green circle on the ground, and when you move over the green circle, your character can jump. Meanwhile, other characters can jump by simply pushing Spacebar.
The requirement to do a Quarter-Circle+K, or to stand in a green circle, to jump is the exact same ridiculousness that requires DK to find the cursor on the screen full of rainbow-colored effects, drop a static ground-target effect, stand in it, to do AoE.
It is incomprehensible that this archaic, jarring mechanic is left in the game to break the flow of gameplay.
I heard that the next beta update will require us to stand in dnd to check the mailbox too.
I also read that they were going to make dnd a requirement to type in general chat but felt like it would have been too unfair to mages that unknowingly made a dk alt without knowing. So mages are receiving a 3% increase to all general chat requests instead.
Imagine if in order to get through a gate you had to jump, shoot a green circle and make it through the gate before it shuts and if you dont you have to restart everything, but in other games you just open the gate… oh wait… thats Doom Eternal.
Different things and classes will approach things differently. If you want to play like another class then go play that other class. Not everything has to be the same. I thought diversity was a good thing, looks like people just want everything to be the same.
This is the exact same argument of, “if you don’t like America, then leave.” The issue with this argument is that changes happen all the time because people want change. That’s why America isn’t the same as it was in 1776. People are allowed to like 90% of the core of what something is and desire change in 10% of it without being told that if it’s not perfect for them, find something else. This isn’t an all-or-nothing situation. When most of us that enjoy the core elements of DK gameplay want a change, we can voice our opinions and hope for the best. Sure, maybe that doesn’t agree with your preference, but you’re doing your best on every DnD post to make sure the world knows what you want (as am I). Which is also exactly what these DnD posts are doing. They’re letting the Dev team know that they desire change. That’s how progress is made. Not everyone will like every change. That’s just how it is.
100% you need play-style diversity. But play-style diversity is completely different than purposely making basic mechanics clunky for the sake of diversity.
In any fighting game or FPS, fundamentally, all characters can jump with a single push of a button. If there exists only one character in the whole roster where the character’s fundamental action (ie. Jumping in FPS, AoE in WoW) is hindered, that character is not going to be used – sound familiar? That is the DK.
Dropping a ground-target effect to do AoE is akin to needing to do a Quarter-Circle+K in Street Fighter to jump. Does one character in the whole roster needing to do Quarter-Circle+K to jump make that character “diverse”? Yes. But it is the wrong kind of diversity.
One push of Wake of Ashes, AoE. One push of Judgement, AoE. One push of Blades of Justice AoE. One push of Divine Storm, AoE. One push of Eye Beam, AoE. One push of Immolation Aura, AoE. One push of Blade Dance, AoE. These skills are similar to pushing Spacebar to jump in a FPS.
Push DnD, find the cursor on a screen full of rainbow-colored effect, target, stand in the ground effect, THEN one push of Scourge Strike does AoE. This is the same as needing to target the ground to shoot a green circle, stand in it, before you can jump in a FPS.
If you do not see the difference, I cannot help you.
When you use your logic to provide insight, you make good posts (I 100% agree with you about Rider tree being passive from the beginning). But instead of thinking of possibilities to add to the discussion, you tend to keep thinking about impossibilities and attacking others, and you end up being abrasive.
Why not think about how others’ suggestions of removing DnD cleave can improve the overall gameplay?
Don’t tell me that you’d rather a) Push DnD, find your cursor on a screen with flashing effects, drop an effect on the ground that obscures mechanics, stand in it, to do AoE, than b) Push Festering Scythe (20s CD with 2 charges) that allows you to cleave for 10s.
If you like a), that’s fine. Give everyone else (99% of the DK population) Festering Scythe choice node with Defile that replaces DnD on a 20s CD that triggers Cleaving Strikes. Then you can keep using DnD Cleave, I will use my Festering Scythe Cleave. Everyone is happy.
Do you know the point of science? It’s not to find possibilities, it’s to find flaws. A lot of people’s suggestions have huge flaws and instead of recognizing those flaws they insult me because I pont them out.
Paladin already exists, go play it. Instead of trying to make the DK play like a paladin we should play like a DK. DnD cleave is a detriment, but now it will be possible to cleave with every single thing we have. Frost strike cleave, HB cleave, RW, Obliterate cleave, auto attack cleave, frostscythe, deathbringer stuff, DnD, GA being fired off with KM procs, BoS.
Like what else is there to want other than a bot to play for you? Tanks need to be slowed down. I don’t know why people think tanks aren’t one of the biggest issues when it comes to and DPS, but they are. Cata tanks have to go much slower and we can use DnD fully while tanks in retail running around like a headless chicken.
Literally no one has insulted you here. That’s all in your head. What I really want to know is why you care so much about this? I’m looking at your character right now and you flat out don’t play DK. Your last parses are in Castle Nathria and I can’t find a single key that you’ve completed going back from now to before Shadowlands. If you aren’t raiding and you aren’t doing keys, why are you raising such a fuss? You’re stirring up this much dissent all because you want to drop dnd to aoe mobs while doing world quests?!?!
Care about depicting reality properly. I wonder why. Different things are going to be different. If you think greener pastures are elsewhere just go to that greener pasture. DK has been steadily going downhill once they started listening to these forums. Things cant be balanced but from RNG or windows of burst and now everyone hates it to which I say, I told you so. This crap has been going on for several expansions now.
Why cant you guys just you know… go off of what people say? Hmm? Its not like this takes a whole hell of a lot of thought, its really simple to grasp these pretty basic concepts that for some reason you guys have to trial and error.
What?
Dont like M+… and do you know what I do when I dont like something… strange thought I DONT PLAY IT. Ive never liked M+, it creates a toxic atmosphere and look at what you guys are creating because someone doesnt do something, a toxic atmosphere. Its not like the things that you guys whine about dont exist elsewhere.
Because I want a fun game? Crazy thought but why cant you guys just you know, talk about what is said instead of talking about others? How bad is your argument and how low do you guys have to steep to try to invalidate someone else? If you are talking about others then you have no issues. At all. Just quit your whining and go play what you like which clearly isnt the DK. So go find what you do like.
How about you learn to read. Im tired of saying stuff and you guys saying “you are just being negative and contrary!” I SAID THAT CLEAVING STRIKES SUCKS. In terms of gameplay its the fault of the design of tanks, not the design of cleaving strikes. What do people complain about? Tanks excessive movement. Why are tanks moving so much? Do they have to? You dont have to move the mobs far to get out of the way of mechanics so thats a bad tank, dont run with them anymore. If they are just constantly pulling more and more and more than that means they dont belong in that content and should be way higher due to the content not being hard enough. Like I said, tanks arent moving a ton in Cata, I wonder why? is it because the things there threaten the tank? Or all the tanks just that bad that they cant pull more than 5 enemies at a time? I get use of 100% of my DnD every single time I drop it.
In terms of balance, it takes a single target ability and turns it into an aoe, you cant avoid this talent, and it cleaves a lot so the abilities it makes cleave cant be all that powerful. Its one of the reasons why dots have been nerfed and damage tried to be put elsewhere. If dots are strong in single target they are godly in aoe because now you are doing to multiple targets that you were doing to 1. This is a very basic concept. Its bad for the spec as a whole in just terms of design before even getting into the gameplay of it which a lot of times its the fault of the person placing DnD.
Please don’t perverse the word “science” to try to hide the abrasive way you approach discussions. The main problem is that you think your perspective is right and everyone is wrong, and you become abrasive, people starts blocking you, and the discussion stops. And by that time, you haven’t even made your point clear.
If you think my suggestions will make the DK too simple, suggest other ways to make it more engaging. If you think the damage of Obliterate cleave would be too high, suggest ways to tone that down while removing the clunky and jarring need for DnD. Don’t say, “Oh, you just want to play a Paladin.”, or “If it is that easy, a bot can play for you.”
Here is a story:
The way you approach discussions reminds me a lot of a stubborn and obnoxious engineer that I worked with. Support team, marketing, and sales all urged the engineer to change the UI because the UI was pretty much a large grid representation of the database. It is clunky and users cannot use it. Multiple releases later, the engineer still did not change the design because he felt the large grid is perfect since it is how the database is designed, and all the users are wrong and they just need to adjust to the UI. He was laid off.
As a Tech COO, I can tell you that the best and most successful people I’ve worked with are the ones who considers and takes in other perspectives, and improves their knowledge and their work.
Next post, approach the discussion with that in mind. Simply tell me, what you think is the problem with making Cleaving Strikes that trigger off of, say, Festering Scythe. Is it too much damage? Too fast of a ramp? No one knows what your main contention is because you put too much abrasive non-sense in your posts.
Maybe not the point of the entire post, but we’re all aware that you can drop DnD at your feet with the push of a button, no cursor necessary, right?
Im not hiding anything. I say what I think of peoples ideas and point out what I find out wrong with them. If you dont like it then dont make suggestions on the internet. Im not here to make friends on a forum. Bad suggestions have lead to where we are and they just continue.
Well look where at least Frost is at the moment. I called a lot of what happened just from the suggestions people made back when BFA was still the current content. This stuff isnt rocket science.
Tell it to someone who cares. I dont care that you think im abrasive. I think you guys are abrasive in how you respond to people not liking your suggestions. Boo hoo. You dont care that you come across as abrasive by calling other people abrasive for not liking your suggestions. Quit with the buzzwords like abrasive, bad faith and all that other nonsense.
I dont care. If people cant handle others not liking their suggestions to the point they have to block others then that talks more to those people than me.
Not my fault. If you want an echo chamber go find all these like minded people create a discord of your own and invite them.
Ive made my point quite clear. Just like in this thread, the point is that different things are different and if you want to go play something that you find is a greener pasture then go play that thing. Its why they have different classes and specs.
I have.
I have.
You do want to play a paladin. You just listed all the things of why you would want DK to be like a paladin, so go play a paladin. Its clearly the playstyle you want so go play it.
Dont really care about some story. Has absolutely nothing to do with me.
I have. I just think they are bad. Considering other peoples perspectives doesnt mean just blatantly agreeing with them.
Are you changing Festering Scythe to be a new ability or just keeping it how it is based off of a number of wounds burst? So you cant cleave until you burst 20 wounds to be able to cleave?
When you design single target abilities and spells to cleave then it limits their damage. This has happened to dots multiple times to where if they are strong single target in aoe they are just absolutely insane due to multi-dotting.
Slow ramp.
Many people just dont read. Ive proved it within this thread. That is abrasive and annoying as well. So how about you get onto people like Dyre that are doing things that annoy me and would annoy anyone. How would you feel if you said something like DnD cleave is a destriment, and then they say “you just want to drop DnD to aoe mobs while doing world quests” HOW ABOUT YOU READ? How about that.
You guys arent innocent in all of this either. Heck ive even had death threats, people sending mail in game, creating a youtube account with this name acting like an absolute degenerate because they are low lives, wanting to beat me up all for saying that someones idea was bad.
So how about getting onto these other people that will block me and then talk bs behind a block? Like Nevermore or whatever that guys name is that said I argue in bad faith when he brought up what my character has done in game when talking about lore. So how about that, how about you report the people calling others idiots and such, how about that?
I see all these green things from report spammers and the thing being restored so according to Blizzard im not doing the things that people like you claim I am doing.
You dont even have to find your cursor. Thats just hyperbole since when you go to place it there is a big neon lime green targeting reticle and I dont know how you can miss it. Its easy to lose your cursor, but its extremely hard to lose that giant green reticle.
Yeah, I know. But there was an argument that you have to find your cursor to know where DnD is going to drop. You can either drop it at your feet with the macro, or just see the giant bright green targeting reticle.
