Imagine if the first day of BFA, you had to pick a covenant which would determine what corruptions, essences and azerite traits you were able to get

[Bluesquared-frostmourne (Bluesquared)]

@Luuni-area-52

Ralph and many others are arguing that you don’t need to be META to succeed in this game. Which is true, if it wasn’t then you wouldn’t see the 19 sub rogues who are 12/12m on logs.

So while yes a majority of people can’t succeed with sub or maybe don’t want to play sub because it’s inferior to the others. Those 19 players have proven that it is possible to succeed in an area where folks are saying it is impossible.

Ya and out of those 19 players how many of them actually are only playing sub because they already done the prog as outlaw or assn and its farm.

Yes there are experts in every class/spec, thats the nature of the game this big and them being passionate, but all in all, that is the core game mode, choosing your class/spec, hell even majority of the racials doesnt even have that much of a potential power swing.

What OP is arguing for is for borrowed power, that shouldnt be locked down so hard, especially with such power variance between each power, that pretty much forces one to have to do a huge investment to get another power for another form of content, hence the 4 toon argument.

It has nothing to do with playing as the 1% of your class/spec.

[Luuni-area-52]

I wish they got rid of the spells from the covenants.

Right now you progress to level 60 and you learn all the spells, but have to pick a covenant and the spells tied to that covenant. Keep the spells separate, but keep the covenant choice there.

Then everyone has access to all the spells. The spells seem to be causing the most turmoil and I really like the convenient system as is. If they just removed the spells from the system, it seems like most of the problems would go away.

[Wirt-stalagg]

I just… Can’t… please… It’s covenant

[Onyo-frostmourne]

@Ràlph-barthilas

Anyone who cares about min maxing aka playing the game wrong needs to put more effort in it.

And what makes you decide if that’s playing the game wrong, you don’t see me saying that about what you like doing, or what lfr bob likes doing is wrong.
We’re playing a game with many ways to play it, none of them are wrong.

@Ràlph-barthilas

In an rpg you build a character for a JOURNEY aka choosing one covenant, you can build your character FOR A SPECIFIC BOSS, but you better be prepared to spend more effort there because it goes against the intended design, and covenant design is quite clearly going towards that direction

Yeah, and this game isn’t just an RPG, it’s an MMORPG, and for an RPG, choosing the faction you side with that gives you different stories, missions(daily stuff or whatever) and pride for your choice, it’s doing pretty good, tying your player character to this choice only makes it harder for some people, or anyone that cares about their performance in a content even harder to make, or even not have much of a choice if that option is really terrible, I don’t see how you make an RPG choice from that.

@Ràlph-barthilas

There is no necessity for multiple character, those are only seen as necessary by world first raiders or extreme tryhards(who are nowhere near world first) so their opinion is irrelevant because you dont balance a game around the extreme things these people do

Okay you got me, it’s not necessary, but if this goes through you will see prejudice and seclusion unlike you’ve ever seen before, and infact this isn’t about a balancing act in the slightest, this robs you the option to make a choice completely up to you, instead it will be one based on whichever content is most relevant to you, which will only get worse and worse the harder you play into that content.

@Ràlph-barthilas

Which they shouldnt because they would perform far better if they stuck to a classs they enjoyed and learned it

Maybe, but you’re also doing more in some cases, and even more so with covenant’s as they are as some are just going to synergise with some specs much, much more than others to a point this might even trump that.

@Ràlph-barthilas

If you didnt notice earlier the tryhard OP quite clearly stated that they would bench any mage that DARED TO GO ARCANE.

SO the wannabe elite tryhards, care very much about class and spec

But it’s what’s going to happen, and my point was for live and in the future in reference to your comment about 10-15 keys, Timbo does higher than 15s, and raids at a pretty high calibre, where this choice does really start mattering when you’re competing for your place in a raid team or mythic plus team.

[Luuni-area-52]

Sorry! Auto correct got me. Let me edit lol.

[Ràlph-barthilas]

If people are so desperate to min max even when they dont need it then I am fine with giving them an option.

They get to change covenants like talents, but they forfeit any rewards, titles, mounts or mogs from the covenants on their account.

You sacrifice everything for maximum performance, it should reflect that

[Bankiebankie-velen]

too much item level ,delete baby so i can still even dont have them mythic raids and all

[Nippyss-barthilas (Nippyss)]

You should also get punished if you decide to go for horrible performance then

Off meta should get no mounts titles or tmogs too

[Onyo-frostmourne]

@Ràlph-barthilas

If people are so desperate to min max even when they dont need it then I am fine with giving them an option.

They get to change covenants like talents, but they forfeit any rewards, titles, mounts or mogs from the covenants on their account.

You sacrifice everything for maximum performance, it should reflect that

How is it fair to remove the rewards for the time you spent playing the game, how is your mind so twisted to believe it is fair to punish the people going for performance even more than they already are putting on themselves?

[Wirt-stalagg]

Wouldn’t bother me lol, I don’t play for those things

[Nippyss-barthilas (Nippyss)]

You shouldn’t get loot if you use a flask in raids

None of that min maxing stuff

[Bankiebankie-velen]

in my opinion the people should do what themself and then see who , guess what 6 item level ,not scary baby

[Zoumz-zuljin (Zoumz)]

If people are so desesperate to rp they should just stick with a covenant and sacrifice maximum performance. That seems more fair.

[Bankiebankie-velen]

Congats on 6000 posts!

[Nippyss-barthilas (Nippyss)]

Why don’t you want people to be able to swap them like a talent though

Wouldn’t that end up being good for you in the long run if you decided to play with other abilities?

[Bluesquared-frostmourne (Bluesquared)]

@Luuni-area-52

I wish they got rid of the spells from the covenants.

Right now you progress to level 60 and you learn all the spells, but have to pick a covenant and the spells tied to that covenant. Keep the spells separate, but keep the covenant choice there.

Then everyone has access to all the spells. The spells seem to be causing the most turmoil and I really like the convenient system as is. If they just removed the spells from the system, it seems like most of the problems would go away.

Thats what OP is asking for bob …
His asking for borrowed power to be separate from the RP choice.

[Zoumz-zuljin (Zoumz)]

Going for the 6666

[Bankiebankie-velen]

,but look out baby ! the number like dangerous or some

[Zoumz-zuljin (Zoumz)]

Might get banned on overwatch for it but I think we’re good here. I’ve seen worse, lately.

[Nippyss-barthilas (Nippyss)]

Like currently it’s a no brainer

I’m deciding based on what ability I like the most

What id strongly prefer would be the noodle scratching 1 week long choice I’d have to make between which tmogs and mounts I like the best and which theme I want to sit with

Currently that’s the least of my worries because I already have tmogs I like; I have mounts I like and I don’t care for theme too much