Shhh, I’m trying not to think about it.
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Wonder if anyone going to the next Blizzcon will have the guts to stand up and yell at their Warcraft Lore and Story Panel, “STOP VILLAIN BATTING THE HORDE!!”
I don’t think the faction conflict is the issue, I think some are trying to write WoW as if it was WCIV and then realize “oh, wait, people play both factions” and then have to try and clean up the mess they made.
Blizzard often says that core of Warcraft is Alliance Vs. Horde that may be, but one can’t wrote story for an MMO like they would for an RTS. In the case of the latter, you CAN beat the bad guys to a pulp/non existence in the end. In the former, there really is no way to write it that won’t make some upset unless we keep it cold war style or both sides are, successfully, painted as gray.
I think they messed up trying to make it a global war .What made it feel like it worked in the past was that each conflict the Horde/Alliance got into were either A) small skirmishes, or B) contained within said zone they were fighting in.
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Both of those can still allow for “cold war” style. Border skirmishes, wars by proxy, spying, sabotage, cold war can handle a lot, it just does not lead to bloody conflict outside of small skirmishes or ones that are contained. After all, even in the RW cold war, we still had the Korean conflict, Vietnam and a few others.
Just wish blizzard would get rid of Anduin, He is what is ruining both the Alliance and the Horde.
The Alliance is never going to be allowed to be proactive or aggressive with him in charge. It also means the Alliance presenting absolutely no threat to the Horde.
They need to remove Golden from the writing staff and get rid of her characters from the story as she is too concerned making sure that Anduin represents and by extension the alliance as someone her son can look upto.
We needs some moral ambiguity in the story on both sides so we can have a believable story. If Blizzard had stuck with Varian on the Alliance and Anduin dying on the broken shore we could have got a far more aggressive Alliance going after the Horde
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The vulpera questline seems to suggest they are trying to affirm the Horde is about being a home for the downtrodden races who stick together to survive, their original theme. But when the Blood Elves (and presumably the Nightborne) could just join the Alliance and the Horde just screwed over the Night Elves in one of the most horrific ways possible, it rings hollow. The Horde would literally be in much better shape if it just never fought the Anduin-lead Alliance, and only the original trio + Bilgewater by proximity need to band together.
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If Varian was still the leader of Alliance, Blizzard would have to either have him fulfill his promise to “end the Horde” or forget he even said such. The first would pretty much and the game unless the Horde was just dissolved and those willing to work with the alliance joined them, the second, well, the writing is bad enough as it is, do we really need characters forgetting things they said in the past?
Actually yes. Because my desire of satisfaction does not extend so far as to risk the potential for future stories for the opposing faction.
The Horde is a very damaged faction. Its Faction identity is in shambles. Several of its Core PCs racial fantasies are just plain broken. The Rep Roster we have left is underused, underdeveloped, and laughably underpowered. The Darkspear are finally recovering from narrative sterility after 3 years of being completely valueless in this game. I honestly have no idea if the Forsaken will ever recover from what Blizz just did to them; with them going so far as to shoehorn Voss into a leadership roll, because there isn’t anyone else left to put there. If not for Thrall and Rexxar rejoining them, the MU Orcs would be in a similar situation than the previous two.
The Alliance is in no such risk on a Meta level. The NEs are clearly in no such risk on a Meta level. In the Horde’s current condition its already going to take an absurd amount of time, effort, and resources to repair what Blizz broke; things they have shown repeatedly they have no intentions of ever investing. Already Shadowlands is screaming of another WoD situation, where Blizz takes the Horde for a joyride; uses it as a vehicle to push the real story they want to tell; fills it to the brim with garbage; then simply moves on to the next shiny thing to distract us with, so they don’t have to deal with the consequences of what they just did. And you want to damage the Horde more?!
EDIT: At least this time I suppose they cared enough to put a few lines of dialogue in game for Rokhan, Gazlowe, and Voss when they took their rep positions. Sure beats when they made Saurfang Orc rep in a friggen tweet…
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Oh camp T again. Jesus where do you people come from
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I’m generally fine with the Horde Race composition as it is. The issue is that I just don’t think Blizzard cares to really try to make up for the damage they’ve done to the Faction, so they’re just sort of defaulting back to the status quo. If BfA needed to happen, then the Horde becoming something new should be the goal; but “new” takes work. They “like writing the Horde” in that they like using the Horde as a plot-device to push narratives they wish to tell. That’s it…
Its strange looking at Shadowlands and thinking that this once potential great playground for character development for characters like Voss; Mayla; Vol’jin; Baine; and Talaanji is likely just going to be WoD 2.0. Blizzard avoiding genuine world building by diving us into another dimension where they can wave old faces around, but give them very little value or meaning for the still living cast. We are going into the land of the Dead where the Shamanistic races and the Forsaken could not hope for a better environment for progression and recovery of their racial narrative … yet the zone aesthetics don’t seem to foster that environment at all.
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well if blizzard wrote them as actually “learning” this time and not commiting atrocities every 5 minutes my opinion would be much more different.
now, can we hope that they learn this time or are you guys going to prove that daelin was right time and time again ?
and that we were too stupid for not killing them all ?
because at that point blizzard should delete the alliance and be done with it. we would deserve it while the horde can enjoy their wolrd of hordecraft as they did 4 of the past 5 expansions.
Hell it may happen again next one!
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And there it is. The “Horde players picked the wrong faction, sucks to be them. I deserve my satisfaction” mentality that is riddled throughout your posts.
You do not care about the “after” your “justice”, for the Horde or Horde playerbase. You do not care if what you want renders the entire faction completely sterile for future stories, and that the Horde Players should be happy to simply “exist”. You certainly don’t care about the unprecedented amount of time, work, and attention that would be required to bring the Horde back from even the damage we’ve already sustained; let alone bringing us back from the “Eye for an Eye” justice you desire. You truly do not care. You expect a satisfying conclusion to BfA. You feel entitled to it. However, you freely admit that the Horde and its playerbase were never entitled to the same; and should not expect it. Sucks to be us, it shouldn’t suck for you.
EDIT: And as a side note. Should the Horde PC be forced to work for Alliance reps and Alliance characters in Shadowlands, its merely because Blizz is too friggen lazy to write an inclusive story for the Horde. So, they’ll shoehorn us into an Alliance story like they did in Legion. That is not “Horde Bias”, its a symptom of a systemic issue with how Blizz “likes writing the Horde” … nothing else.
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No droite, is not that simple.
i said it many times, i simply want a story to get resolved.
that involves have any story in the first place.
You think that we got a story in bfa even when it was the nelfs the ones genocided while we got saurfang the movie in 8k and ignoring the actual victims?
i don’t enjoy being the side character of the horde story and punching bag for their atrocities and never responding because “hey, don’t punish us , it wasn’t our fault!” and i know that,it wasn’t the player but at the same time, the horde as a story faction did those things and they have all my hate for it. seems like is a side of effect of making a playable faction make those things in the first place.
And you don’t care about the alliance sounds like we are the same with the only difference being that you are painted red and i am blue.
hey we may have much in common.
Now let me think about the horde playerbase, that’s a tricky one i always, always tried to understand their side and at the same time i never denied my biases. i believe that is natural that what i want enter in conflict with the literal other side of the playerbase because that is the nature of the conflict that blizzard wrote in the first place.
i truly hope that this time is actually neutral and if players have to help someone from their faction, it should be different for each side.
and i said it again, if they somehow do a good job with tyrande story in shadowlands i am willing to “forget” hopefully that also involves not hearing anything at all about faction war or the horde ever again from the alliance side, the less the better.
that leaves room to develop the horde while the alliance has their actual story, sounds good right? everybody wins. a triple AAA company like blizz should be able to do it.
no need to kill anyone or destroy something simply giving both sides equal treatment should be enough.
i don’t think that i am wrong for hating the other faction.
i believe that the horde get the hate it deserves
but enough of that, we are going in circles at this point, good day.
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Misery loves company.
From my point of view, at least the factions seem equal in unhappiness. At this point, seeing the alliance get anything satisfying out of BFA means watching someone else get happy at my expense, and I’d rather everyone stay miserable.
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well you don’t have to worry about that because even our “victories” ends up being hollow. like we winning the warfronts, as a consoloation prize, like a random tweet.
instead of, you know, show it ingame.
maybe that is what blizzard wanted, that “life is not fair, war is bad, you should not want war”
kinda funny considering the name of the game.
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Not at all. I do care about the Alliance. I wanted them to get some satisfaction from this narrative. The difference is that I realize that you not getting the satisfaction you desire does nothing to impede upon the potential for future stories for you faction; while you getting your satisfaction does absolutely have dire consequences for mine to do the same.
You don’t seem to comprehend that. Look at how Blizz has written the Horde all these years and genuinely tell me that they have the ability to rebuild the Horde from what it is right now; let alone what it would be after your justice. The MU Orcs were barely a factor in friggen Outlands. The Forsaken and BEs were a mere footnote in the battle against Arthas. The friggen MU Orcs weren’t even a presence in the war against the friggen Legion; the beings that turned them into monsters and destroyed their entire planet! And now, the NEs get an Emerald Dream style afterlife in the Shadowlands, while there isn’t a single afterlife zone in the entire expansion that is even slightly reflective of the Shamanistic Horde races.
The Horde has always had a more layered and complex relationship with the Death domain than the Alliance ever has. The Alliance up until very recently has had almost an exclusively black and white relationship with “Death”, while dominating in every single other major universal domain in this setting. But, on the precipice of going into the lands of the dead … all of a sudden the Alliance gets a massive influx of Death themed characters … the BEs are the only Horde race at the forefront. Amazing how the Horde always loses its relevance to the Alliance in ever expansion and conflict we should have relevance; then only brought up to play the agressors in a war against a Faction we are constantly told we could never hope to win.
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I mean, the horde would’ve not been affected at all if Nathanos and Belmont died in 8.1. They are not even horde anymore.
Then after Sylvanas flew off, it would’ve been nice if the more peaceful horde races actually helped the night elves to rebuild their lands and remove the blight. Stuff like that, it could happen offscreen but it would save the horde a bit from this “evil mindless monsters” image the writers have pushed through in BfA.
I never wanted the horde to be portrayed like this and I still think it was stupid to start with this whole stuff, but it’s what they did and I think it would be best for the horde (non-player) characters to try to compensate for that atleast to an extent. That’s just how I see it, maybe you disagree.
I mean we’ll have to see about that. After all it would be nice if they’d atleast make Teldrassil slightly less tragic if those souls went to some sort of happy afterlife instead of being doomed to eternal torment in the maw. Would actually be nice if they could let us save these souls from the maw and give them a future without eternal torture. It’s not about night elf content, it is about what kind of content. Is it positive content and positive things happening to the race or is it negative content and being kicked while they’re down like in BfA ?
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Care to example your displeasure friend?
Or is this the case of a throw-away witty one-liner that adds nothing to the conversation?
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You do realize that every single soul that was killed in this conflict was sent to the Maw right? That the entire point of it was to draw it out as long as possible to cause as large a death toll on both sides as possible? Hell, the entire reason for even bringing in the ARs for the Horde side was to bolster the sacrifice pool and force the Alliance to do the same to compensate. In fact, as far as we can tell … its entirely possible that every person that died in Legion was also sent to the Maw. Not sure the NEs are special in this regards …
We have no way of knowing how far back that rabbit hole goes.