Dude, you guys avenged it, the guy who ordered the attack (and tried to minimize civilians casualities) is dead, in a war started by the horde, if you even want to go even further theramore is gone, hell teldrassil is gone since that is why the alliance attacked there in the first place trying to defend the nelfs.
and you want to talk to me about justice?
What about the alliance justice? basically the reason why i created
the post in the first place?
and where i am constantly told that i should not punish the other playerbase for what the writters did, Pro tip:The alliance was already punished, so why is wrong for us for wanting retribution, one of the core ideals of the alliance?
I’ve seen both side claim that they either killed the civilaisn too, or let them leave. It’s been a long time since I’ve done quests from Cata and from the Horde side it seemed they slaughtered them all.
Garrosh pushed out for more resources, causing war because the people of Orgimmar were starving and were in direr of them. So what does a Warrior, and an Orc no less, who was raised by a culture that is take what you need? War.
Theramore was going to be a military target regardless, they can calm neutral all they want, but when Alliance are using it as a funnel it was going to be wiped out. I still don’t think they should have burn down Teldrassil, keep it as a bargaining chip? Sure, but Blizzard using it to keep start a war because some random Night Elf said something that made Sylvanas go off her rocker was a mistake, honestly.
What about the justice for the Zandalari who were forced to work with Jaina? Or the Blood Elfs who were kicked out of Dalaran? It cuts both ways.
Because Blizzard has been writing it this way for a while now?
And the Horde have had not only a good chuck of their name characters killed, or turned villains, but they’ve also had to put up with an Orc who felt sorry for a war he planned and started, and an Alliance leader painted red. (I won’t go into that rant because that would be a whole thread in itself)
Nothing, but you have to keep in mind so do the players on the other side.
let me refresh your memory.
hawtorkne tried to let the civilians escape.
the civilians escaping were trapped by animals and killed by it. that is not the alliance fault, if anything is the horde fault for attacking ashenvale in the first place and forcing the alliance to attack.
so the horde started a war because garrosh didn’t had any skill in diplomacy, in other words, the horde and him were the evil agressors.
Theramore was not neutral, jaina has been part of the alliance since the end of the third war and always sacrificied everything she could for peace. and as such she had a duty towards her allies that is why we see her troops in the barrens trying to help the nelfs in ashenvale.
if you want to apply the “military target” then all the world is a military target considering that the cities and their soldiers are created to protect the people on it. and that would also apply to taurajo as well.
and again, the horde attacked first. again. that makes them evil, again.
The sunreavers who betrayed her at dala? she didn’t wake up one day and said “it’s a good day to kill elfs” and she oferred the choice of surrender and only killed those who resisted. Bad? probably, justified? absolutely.
if anything that proves that she was right considering that then in legion another sunreaver betrayed dalaran and in bfa another literally tried to kill thrall,baine and saurfang simply because they were “her friends.”
and the zandalari attacked kultiras, and the wolrd twice, not even speaking of rasthakan who stolen a kultiran artifact in his vault.
What justice? they helped the horde in their genocidal campaign.
or what, i cannot apply the “military target” here the same way you do with theramore?
i am just saying that is stupid that the horde can do all sort of crimes and get away with it.
while the alliance has to sit and wait what is going to be the next horde atrocity meaning that the alliance efforts for peace have been, if anything stupid.
i always tried to be sympathetic towards horde player.
but i will always defend my interests as well because i have no other choice and what we both wants are complelely opposite.
that is pretty much natural in a two faction game.
and i can say the same because i happen to be on 50 % of the playerbase.
at the end of the day i think that is natural that we enter in conflict, in regards to what we want.
IT MaTteRs Apparently.
Hum. it was a pleasure argue with you, lets do it another time! i already said all what i had to say. again thanks everyone for the replies.
I play both side so I know the feeling. I was just waiting for Genn or Rogers to kick off their own war, but the Alliance isn’t allowed to be the aggressors and with boy wonder on the throne I doubt they’ll ever get the chance.
True, and it’s always fun seeing someone else’s thoughts. I’m sure we’ll get into again.
It sucks but the in game experiences involving BFA has become like that as well (at least it has to me). The entire Alliance experience is a response to Sylvanas and Teldrassil with no payoff in the entire expansion.
And now we are extending in to the next expansion? And we are supposed to be excited about that?
I don’t know what to think about what they are doing.
The difference here is this. The Horde playerbase was never given a path to satisfaction in BfA. As awful as it is for the Alliance to not get the justice they crave, the fact of the matter is the Horde was never going to get a satisfying conclusion for this expansion. And while Alliance Player frustration is warranted to some extent, they do need to realize that. That they demand satisfaction in a story that there was no avenue to satisfaction to be gained for the opposing side.
They also need to realize that with the damage the Horde took in this second round of Villain batting … the Red Faction cannot take much more of a beating before its rendered entirely sterile for future stories. To claim the satisfaction some of the Alliance players on here seem to be implying they want, they would gleefully render half the playerbase into the status of “you get to exist at all, be happy. Its not our fault you picked the wrong faction”.
A good example of this is the Forsaken. ATM Belmont and Feranell are two of the Race’s most developed representatives; as humbling a fact as that is. However, both are also war criminals that the Alliance playerbase want dead as well. Its already very debatable whether the Forsaken Racial Narrative or Fantasy can ever be recovered in any meaningful way, but the loss of these two on top of Nate and Sylvie would be disastrous on an already unprecedented disaster. That doesn’t even include Calia who brings upon its own massive wave of issues…
Tell me droite, what choice do we have?
You want that we simply forget and forgive? then what is even the point of playing at this point if they turn us into this complete joke that don’t even respect their own ideals of “justice” or let their allies get killed by some murderers and let them go because “we would be as bad as they”
it could be sum up to “alliance trust the horde, gets stabed in the back and lost and entire city because they were too stupid to not kill them all while they had the chance so we pretty much deserve it for trusting them”.
despite that we don’t even have a good reasons to trust them anymore in the first place making everything even more stupid.
You can realize that the Horde playerbase didn’t ask for this story and start considering the consequences of the “justice” you crave. Get out of your RP head enough to realize that there are other players on the other side; and move on. Bluntly, the Horde was punished for BfA; just not by the Alliance. It may be unsatisfying, but the Red Faction simply cannot take much more damage to its identity or character roster before it is rendered completely sterile to all future stories. Hell, the Forsaken might have already been rendered just that.
But, for the sake of narrative satisfaction that the Alliance believe they are entitled to (while freely admitting that Horde playerbase is under no such entitlements) … they’d gladly render the whole Red Faction in a similar position as the Forsaken currently are. And should Blizz actually give them that justice, but also go out of their way to put in the absolutely massive amount of time, resources, and storytelling to repair the damage that they’ve done to the Horde to give Alliance players like you their "satisfying conclusion’ … players like you would scream “Horde Bias”!
Simply put, the Horde playerbase picked the wrong Faction. The Forsaken playerbase picked the wrong PC race. Its perfectly acceptable to run off these two premises, but you are a monster if you suggest the same thing about the NE playerbase. Which is why the NEs are getting a nice little Emerald Dream themed afterlife built for them, while none of the shamanistic races of the Horde are getting one. Pshh … the Darkspear being related to death? LOL, lets make their entire afterlife a 5-man dungeon. Maybe we’ll kill their Elune in it too?!
Either deal with the story you’re given or leave, there aren’t any other options. You’ll notice quite a few Forsaken and less rabid Night Elf fans left a long time ago for a reason.
Both factions have been screwed over in big, but different, ways and I get the frustration you’re feeling about the entire situation, but as long as you’re telling me that the only way you’re going to be happy is if my situation gets worse then I think you’ll find that most of the Horde playerbase will happily tell you to just deal with it.
i realize that there are players in the other side.
i guess that you also realize that your other side (and i mean, alliance players) also exist, we didn’t asked for this story either.
Would you accept if in cata the alliance invaded horde lands and destroying things from the horde?
would you accept if in mop we started destroying some iconic place from the horde and ended up in a empty threat after helping your enemies regain their capital and asking nothing in return?
would you also willing to accept that cata-mop-wod was all about the alliance while you were left as a side plot at best?
and then in bfa lets say that even after jaina,genn or whoever starts a war,genociding the horde race while also failling to avenge the fallen every possible time while the alliance helps her/him the entire time and then you are forced to accept peace with the alliance despite the multiples crimes that they commit?
Would you be willing to move on? forget and forgive?
or you will be demanding heads on pikes,cities destroyed or stuff like that? be honest here.
well i am actually hopefully with the future, with any luck in shadowlands they can somehow fix the mess they have made. depends on the story they give.
i don’t think that is “the only way” in fact i do think that we can get out of this without demanding more from the horde.
But i would be lying if i tell you that i would not be happy with some actual payback on the actual horde as a story faction.
i think that it sucks that is a playable faction precisely because it would come at the expense of them, and i don’t blame them for defending their faction.
blizzard shouldn’t have done what they did at teldrassil. i am still amazed on how stupid they were.
I was responding more to his point that the reveal of Shadowlands either generated no excitement (or excitement beyond the reading of a MMO-Champ/Wowhead article) or took us past the Teldrassil Issue that has been hanging over this game for the entire x-pac, and now looks to hang over the next one too.
Pretty much this is the only option.
More likely (if I am understanding the new leveling plan correctly) BFA can soon become forgotten content as you will never need to set foot in it again.
Seems to me that alot of Alliance players just seem to want their shot at the ones who get to run up, kick the Horde in the nuts for a change, even if it means they “lose” in the end. Let the Horde players figure out what it feels like to take a huge loss and then be denied justice, and also let the Alliance players know what it feels like to get villain batted.
Quite frankly though, I think it would be best for all parties if Blizzard just flat out stopped trying to write faction conflict story.
Or at least fire the current writing staff in charge of it and find someone who might actually know how.
I don’t know how you even have enough immersion left in the game to think of asking for any of this. You should probably just give up and accept that this expansion was never going to be enjoyable, like I did when the prepatch content was first announced.
