Saurfang, Lor’themar, and Therissra turning on sylvans wasnt a good thing? They instead should have continued to fallow her?
Baine, like the rest of the story, cant seem to be written well. Suggesting to surrender at Rhastakhans funeral? Thats apropriate? How well would it have been recieved if an allaince leader suggested surrender while discussing teldrassil?
Hamuul being neutral doesnt make him immune to punishment by many. Kind of a double standard there. When he does good it doesnt count for horde but when horde does bad it counts against him.
If he dosnt work for you. Thrall did plenty. Alliance hated being his sidekick in cata but horde is almost always a sidekick to some great alliance hero.
Cairne, challenged garrosh to mok’gora because he knew that garrosh was bad for the horde. He also spoke out against his apointment as warchief from the begining.
Voljin got trolls thrown out of org for speaking out against garrosh. Spent the mop putting the hordes first rebellion together.
All of these were done because it was the right thing. Im sure other instance of horde doing good could be found. It wount stop alliance from refusing to acknowledge them.
Not all Horde players hate Baine, I may hate how he was written, but I want him to represent the Horde, at least the more honorable horde that Thrall, Vol’jin and Cairn started.
Really, most of the Horde players that don’t want Baine to represent the Horde are either Sylvanas loyalists or those that take how he has been written/shown in game as being his entire character or who can’t see that some of what he does, though it helps the alliance, is also for the good of the Horde.
Here is the problem with that, they all got tainted by teldrassil because they supported her at lordaeron.
We even have thalyssra literally burning a church full of refugees to escape after releasing a war criminal like zul.
i would agree that lorthemar didn’t have much of a choice but he actually could have abandoned the horde and re-opened talks with the alliance considering that alleria, not so long ago offered join the alliance.
i think that he simply wanted to stop the bloodshed from both sides.
he believed that he could have used diplomacy. but yeah, that wasn’t the right time.
Fair enough.
Correct.
rip.
i hope they can be redeemed, now sure as hell that they don’t need to be redeemed at my eyes and that the horde should be written for their fans and not those from the other side but that doesn’t stop me from wanting it.
That might have been tainted by the fact that Alleria, and by extension, the Alliance welcomed the void elves, who were more or less banished by Lor’themar for the threat to the Sunwell their presence would provide. After all, it was Alleria that, willingly or not, enabled a voidlord to appear at the Sunwell.
The problem is how underdeveloped the whole career of Sylvanas as Warchief was. We are told a few things like “support of the people” and how she apparently exploits the anger and hatred of them, with little showing exactly how. Garrosh at least was presented to have a cult of personality with loyalist orcs and immediate dissent from other leaders happened. We can only assume why they waited to do anything about Sylvanas. But the real answer is the same for why not take Anduin’s offer.
Meta reasons causing plot contrivance. They had the narrative they wanted, and it required the Horde to only rebel until Blizzard decided it was time.
Know what’s great about this thread and the ideas of punishing the Horde in here?
I won’t care at all about it come next Friday when Pokemon Shield is in my hands. Bless you Nintendo!
On a more serious note this amount of toxicity, not just in this post but the entire Story Forum, is unhealthy. I’m seriously debating on peacing out of these forums for good just to escape it. I enjoy discussing and reading about lore and its interpretations, but that isn’t what this is any more, it’s a one sided curb stomp by Horde haters. Every day, every week it’s the same ‘Horde evul’ stuff being thrown around with little ability to have a serious discussion. It’s sad, but that’s what the tree left us with. Even the Shadowlands announcement has done ridiculously little to get us talking about ANYTHING else. As a Horde Fan, Troll Fan, and Undead fan I feel as there is no place for me here any more. And that sucks.
Getting rid of Horde in kaldorei land helps even the scales, after the Horde got rid of most kaldorei in kaldorei land…
They do count. Aren’t these random civillians the reason we do all this fighting and adventuring? To protect their lives and freedom? I sure as hell don’t fight to defend Malfurion or Tyrande from the evils of this world.
Teldrassil was the first time a faction failed to do so in-game, catastrophically, and at the hands of the enemy faction even. It’s not something we can just overlook because Malfurion and Tyrande got away unscathed. The Alliance has never inflicted anything of such scale upon the Horde… And likely never will.
I don’t want to mend this divide. I don’t wanna hold a hand that is still bloodied with the blood of the innocents I failed to protect.
So there is no making up for it then? Teldrassil happened and they didnt immediately leave the horde and open their gates for alliance occupation.
When did Thalyssra burn a church? I assume you are refering to horde breaking talanji out of the stockade. If that is the case than that never happened.
Lets just leave out a crucial part. You are right, he did want tonstop the bloodshed. But you dont jump to surrender at the funeral of a king who died defending his people. “You were just attacked and your kind died? Just give up. game over man, game over.” As you stand over his dead body in front of his daughter in front a a massive crowd of his greaving people.
He could have put that on the table, just not then. Timing is what made that a horrible depiction of the charcter.
I feel like you misunderstand the reason why Baine is disliked so much on these forums. He’s not hated just because he’s willing to work with the alliance, because Vol’jin and Thrall have done that too. He’s hated because that’s all he’s ever shown to do. He’s like if Anduin never even had scenes discussing how to fight the horde.
Another problem is that the story’s constantly written so that “doing the right thing” also coincides with helping the alliance. It’s stupid for them to be treated as synonyms in the first place. So Baine also suffers as a consequence because he’s essentially the sacrificial lamb brought out to try to provoke a bit of sympathy for the horde. But that doesn’t make it any less annoying as a horde player when it seems like you never watch him do anything neutral-good instead of alliance-good.
This comment is pretty much on spot about Baine character. He is only showed to be a coward toward the big bad like if he was scooby and when he move his hairy hide it only benefits the alliance or is related to Jaina/Anduin since it seems despite of being a horde leader and interact with them a lot, he only perceive those 2 as his only friends
All land is troll land. The kaldori decimated troll empires, likly leaving a swath of dead civilians in every direction. So they started it.
No they dont. The event sucked, everyone agrees but you are blowing it so far out of proportion. If you can replace them with a randomly generated name and apearance and it hs zero effect on the story they arnt a chacter.
If you are so interested in grasping at straws just to play the victim. The horde was created by the legion, this means its the eredars, and by extension the draeneis fault because velen didnt do enough to stop archomonde and kiljaiden from joining the legion. This also means that the scourge is the alliances fault. This all i n addition to the kaldori being warmongering bigots and violently seizing troll territories. Thw real vicums are the trolls and orcs. If the kaldori had been diplomatic and the eredar less power hungry no e of the events that destroyed troll and orc cultures would hve taken place which wouldnt have led to the alliance and horde forming leading to the Teldrassil.
You don’t get to decide who matters and who doesn’t to who.
People whose name you don’t know are still people. And I’d argue all their deaths had a big impact in the story, be it driving Tyrande to do the Night Warrior ritual or empowering Sylvanas.
Why not? You are doing that for me. You go on with this ridiculous crusade for revenge where your opinions superseed mine. Eye for an eye doesnt work.
I dont think we should do anything that takes from the player. But that lacks cruelty, so not good enough.
You are viewing the event from a very singular and narrow perspective. You are seeking comeuppance at the cost of a large portion of the playerbase. The game is made for more than just you, its made for more than just the alliance or horde, and its made for more than any on race within the game.
You refuse any and every suggestion as unacceptable because its not vindictive enough. If it doesnt make the horde and its playerbase suffer it doesnt matter.
We have real life genocide to use as referance and guess what. Real people who lost real friends and loved ones didnt push for the things you want.
Your war sucks, you literally dont understand the story or war in general, war is bad thats why the story frames it that why, the ultimate goal in real life is the same as in wow, the end of all death and destruction of war, Your type is the reason blizzard keeps doing faction stories, cause so many people still haven’t learn the moral of the story, they didnt learn in mop and judging by the forums today most people still dont understand even after bfa, guess we really need a mop/bfa 3 probably up to 6 till people understand.
i would say that they could negotiated with anduin when they know what he wants.
Yes she did, zul burned the church full of refuges that serves a distraction while they escape. not only killing everyone in their path but also didn’t caring at all that the catedral was full of refugees from teldrassil.
You may say that she didn’t do it and yet she was part of that group.
i think that is simply a side a effect of turning the horde into the bad guys.
and making them the type of “everything to achieve victory” that means, not caring about morals at all.
killing civillians, neutral parties, medics, using bodies such as derek as weapons, torture him, ect.
i don’t know if baine would be more liked if he acted more “interally” i think that he would be marked as a “traitor” the same way saurfang was.
“Its surface blazes bright, masking the shadows below.”
I’m going to have to keep reminding everyone that the Sunwell was compromised well before Alleria got there. A Light font that powerful should overwhelm a single Void Elf, dark naaru absorbed or not, or at least neutralize it. That’s not what happened.
Instead, void creatures popped through. By all evidence, Alleria poked through a thin sheen of powerful light, ever so slightly breaking the film that’s keeping the void at bay beneath the surface before it reformed.
The entire Sunwell is a ticking time bomb of Void.
The Orc camps were a bad example. That’s what I get for naming things off the top of my head before bed.
But Camp Taurajo if memory serves was a massacre. The survivors wanted revenge or at least some action taken against the Alliance, however Baine exiled them.
Now, to me comparing it to the Night Elfs and how Teldrassil was burnt to the ground, mind you on a different scale, I see some similarities. Tyrande wants Sylvana’s head on a pike. While the Alliance, and Shandris more specifically, is telling her she is wrong, and should sign the treaty.
Do I think the Night Elfs should be denied their justice? No, not one bit. I think they should get it and that 8.1 was just another boot to the stomach while they were down, but what I was trying to say is that Blizzard has a habit of either A) solving it off screen, B) In a throw away quest, or C) Ignoring it until people just stop caring.
