I'm stuck on Tyrande's bizarre, vague line to Calia in the SL entry quest at the Frozen Throne

Lore Story Forum
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Sucks for the Forsaken for it to be implied their faction is going to be saved by a special ‘good one’ who has the approval of the cosmic force that makes them burn, and is also from the same family that literally murdered them. Blizzard keeping the record perfect for their unfortunate cultural/societal implications.

There are good ways to do Calia, but this doesn’t seem to be it. There are even decent ways to make this Calia work, but Blizzard doesn’t seem interested in those directions or capable of executing them.

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She works when blizzard isn’t trying to force her to be a leader of a faction of people she literally knows nothing about or what they been through. Personally? I think she’s fine as someone who wants to help those undead who feel lost and don’t fit in with the rest of Forsaken society. She could give them a new purpose in their unlife. But her going around acting like she has any clue on what the forsaken suffered is just…like you said, blizzard really dropped the ball.

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I try to be open minded about this… I feel like this light-undead thing could become interesting.

Saraka says that Calia will no longer feel mortal suffering anymore, and that her nightmares will go away now that she is what she is…
Now we are seeing at icecrown, instead of empathizing with Tyrande and her suffering (which she may be losing the ability to do, since she can no longer feel her own suffering) Calia is all telling Tyrande what she should be doing instead. She might be just as twisted, or even moreso than a Forsaken raised by necromancy, and I would like to see how that plays out.

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Is that why Tyrande rebukes her and tells something along the lines of This is your kinds fault? I mean, it certainly has potential for good conflict between those two.

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If we’re being optimistic and looking for the good side of it all, at least those legitimately scary, obsessive posters that used to violently rave about “Forsaken have no legal, royal right to Lordaeron and therefore no rights at all” people are mostly gone now that a Menethil has returned.

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I was initially of the opinion that the only role that Calia could play in the Forsaken was as a communal meal, but I’ve come around to the idea that she could play a role in the wider Forsaken society. Honestly, if she ends up being the smiling, shining face that conceals a cunning, conniving, hard-ball-playing politician then that works for me just fine. As a puppet of the Forsaken works, but so does her as a worthy player in the shadowy schemes of the undead.

Any context in which I like the idea of Calia includes some kind of interaction with other representatives and stakeholders of the Forsaken. Not just Lillian, who is also out of place, but the heads of the Dreadguard, Deathstalkers, RAS, Cult, etc.

It can’t all be washed away in the light of ‘Look, A Glowing Menethil!’

What matters is that the Forsaken don’t roll over for a pretty face who is totally divorced from their culture and experiences. That sucks for story and general… ‘not being jerks’ reasons. If it works out that the Forsaken and her reach an agreement whereby she is their PR-friendly public face, but she has to work politically with a Desolate Council or other amalgamation of Forsaken interests, that would be compelling for me. And I would accept that just being indicated in peripheral dialogue, frankly, I am not asking for dev time on lots of custom models and VA - honestly, it would rock if the existence of a shadowy council running the Forsaken/Calia was only ever a hinted-at detail.

It would also really sell me Calia if there was an exchange of some kind where Anduin got a very rude shock when she refuses to do something he asks, and instead chooses to champion Forsaken interests to the detriment of their relationship. Not out of spite, just to acknowledge the differing interests. Something where there is a stark choice between her old attachments and the new ones she is seeking to form, and she chooses to practice what she preaches and back Lordearon’s new, rotten masters.

Alliance: “Oh hey great Calia is in there, we can move into the plaguelands”
Calia: “Unfotunately not. Also, we’re going to need you to move out of Stromgarde again”
Alliance: :open_mouth: :angry:
Forsaken: :open_mouth: :heart_eyes:

(Not that she’d go to war, just refusing to cede the territory officially would be a nice gesture)

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67

Wasn’t the naaru’s name Sa’ara?

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Maybe this is the problem. Everyone assume she will be the Forsaken racial leader. We don’t know what she will do and if anything I suspect she will be more important to however we deal with a light based expansion(which feels more and more like it is just around the corner)

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I think it would be really cool if she became a void priest, resurrected the Church of Shadow from irrelevancy, and became the Horde’s answer to Alleria Windrunner while the Blood Elves keep their place as stewards of the Horde’s Light.

Even if she does the typical priest thing of handling both Light and Void, she would fit in with the Forsaken much better and not even necessarily become evil if she just dipped into the Void a bit.

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70

I think it makes a little sense. At this point, Tyrande probably sees Calia as another member of the Forsaken, not just because she is Undead but because she is an Undead that has been working closely with the Forsaken. I don’t think she needs to be prejudiced against all Undead for that to make sense.

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Despite the fact that she’s literally … how did Roux put it … “smooth and unblemished, glowing from within with an arresting light”?

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Sure. What matters most is that she has been working with the Forsaken a lot. Her being Undead is just icing on the cake.

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Define “a lot”.

:pancakes:

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She appears to have become an ally of Lilian, and she is supposed to be helping the Night Elf Dark Rangers (who might be former Forsaken at this point? Who knows.) that didn’t keep working with Sylvanas.

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Yes, but I call her by her real name. (it’s her void god name).

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When those bipolar Naaru go from light to void, they sometimes have different names, I guess. And she went void for a bit, but returned. She was Saraka when she was a Void creature.

I don’t know if they always change their names. M’uru became Entropius, but L’ura didn’t change her name. Or if she did, we didn’t ask her new name.

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I’m not sure the Church of Forgotten Shadow is even logically capable of fitting into the lore anymore. Before the introduction of Death as a fundamental magic, the canon was the Void magic was the force that animated the Forsaken, hence worship of Shadow. Now that Void is completely unrelated to the Forsaken condition, the Church is incapable of making sense. It has more or less been soft retconned out.

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The Cult/Church of Forgotten Shadow came back in the Legion Priest order hall campaign.

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We have evidences that this has not actually been the case.
In 8.1 Writers might wanted to ship this bad writing but in Shadows Rising, sira explicitly tells Tyrande that she didn’t chose this, she never would have.

So there seems to be some kind of mind controll invovled.
Especially since we know that the power of the maw CAN do it (Lichking) and that the maw grew more powerfull due to the events happened.

So it is entirely possible that this is going to be written as some kind of mind controll effect. Or memory altering effect that is involved in the rising.
The Maw lore for example states that souls are tortured till they become loyal to the jailer. So this IS a thing.

The whole “undead with free will” is long gone. Sylvanas was MEANT to replace the Lichking to BECOME the Lichking. Which ultimately means mind controlling undead.

Pretty much this.

  1. Blizzard is know really capable of deep writing.
  2. Tyrande has NEVER shown a universal grudge with Undead before or outside the normal lines.
    She even shows mercy on Sira in Shadows Rising. So I am pretty sure Tyrandes lines are directly aimed against the Forsaken who are now represented by Calia.
    Nothing more.

Calia just dared to hit a wound spot with her talking, overstepped a clear line where she has no say in and got a scolding. Same recieved Thrall when he confronted Tyrande in Shadows rising and the same thing happens when the Horde Player talks to Tyrande in SL.

Calia just seems to be like “hey i helped a few of your people can we be best friends friends?”
She even tells Lor themar? That because she did so, Tyrande will not harm the Horde when she tells her and will be eternally gratefull.
Calia seems to be naive as a child could be and gets a kick in the but for it.

Tyrande knows that not Sylvanas alone was responsible. The whole Horde is guilty and acts acordingly.

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I’d certainly like her much more if she embraced the shadow and became the anti-Anduin, a Jaina-threat-level shadow priest with the throne of Lordaeron and the ability to explode heads like she’s in Scanners.

But if she’s a hook for a light-based expansion, we are probably stuck with her as-is.

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