I'm not conspirationist but the whole FF14 thing

Off-Topic Games, Gaming and Hardware
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LOL, imagine thinking that people buying into the hype of the SL advertisements coming off of a terrible expansion called BFA automatically means SHADOWLANDS = SUCCESS

You have launch targets and you have product continuity targets spread out through the life of the product. It most certainly has a numerical value.

This is like saying Battlefield 2042 was a success because it sold better than Battlefield V. We know this is objectively false because of the current state of the game and consumer feedback.

And so, we can say that BF2042 has a going concern of continuity as does Shadowlands. Hence why some are predicting it is going the way of WoD in early completion…

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The hardest content of FF14 can be done with a PlayStation controller.

There’s no need for comparisons. Two different games.

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Thing is, there’s quite a bit more content that is relavant than just the Endwalker endgame. I mean hell, the game has a method of doing challenges with old content (Min ilvl, no Echo. Try that doing turn 9 of Bahamut. You’ll never complain about the game being easy ever again). It’s been like this every xpack. We still aren’t quite sure what the relic will look like, for instance, or the 24 man raid. FFXIV doesn’t really have the same kind of content droughts WoW is known for; something new comes out every couple of months like clockwork.

And the sheer breadth of stuff that is available to do is utterly staggering at this point. Raids, dungeons, crafting, everything that is the Gold Saucer, Eureka, Bozja, Palace of the Dead, Heaven on High, Housing, Relics, leveling alt jobs, Hunts, Beast Tribes, Blue Mage, Hildibrand, and a ton of stuff you can do that you can literally make up for yourself, like playing literal music. The only content that really suffers is PvP, and they’re looking to improve that.

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Wow has infinite difficulty and horrible RNG gearing.

Two different games indeed.

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Honestly, they’d be fine if they kept ignoring it.

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WoW feels like a game that has run its course. FF14 is still going even though it could use more content. I liked Bozja/Zadnor better than any recent WoW patch zones or storylines.

FF14 also keeps its old content relevant way better, which I think is a big reason why it has aged like wine.

At this point though I am looking forward to Ashes of Creation more than anything from FF14 or WoW. Also looking forward to FF16.

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lmao not a chance

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PvP is so good that I have gained like 2 honor levels in SL versus 75 in BfA.

And it’s not like PvP was that good in BfA.

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What is a conspirationist? I’m not really sure, I’m just a librarian.

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This is one thing I find relevant and which Blizzard needs to figure out how to get it to work in WoW.

While I don’t play FF14 I do play ESO, and every dungeon and raid is accessible to any character in the game regardless of what expansions you may have played (except for the most recent, if you haven’t paid for it, rather like having WoW but not purchased Shadowlands). As long as you on a sub for ESO every part of the game is open to you (except that last expac). The dungeons are not set to expansions or levels, the gameplay adapts to allow you to do them whatever level you are, any and all the time.

Sure, it would take away running raids and dungeons for drops and mounts solo but it would, on the other hand, open up a huge amount of content across the game for everyone to do. There would need to be a way to queue for them so you could find enough people and Im not sure how that would be worked but Im guessing that if they can do it for Timewalking, they can do it in other ways.

This needs to be a thing in WoW.

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111

It’s puzzling. The PS2 could support vast open worlds in games like GTA III. The game engine would just stream assets in and out of memory as you came close or got farther from certain areas.

Yet modern PCs 20 years later, MMOs use loading screens. What. GW2 is like that too, a bunch of small instances, not a cohesive open world.

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Yes exactly what I meant.

Endwalker did not launch with Pandæmonium wing or Savage but I’m also counting it as a 6.0 release even though its a 6.0.5 probably.

Castle Nathria and Pandæmonium wing 1 are both the launch’s raids.

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That’s the actual question here. I can’t imagine many people anymore due the game’s condition.

This finite feeling only exists because the story and gameplay are bad.

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Name me five things I could do for hours at a time that isn’t instanced in Shadowlands, or related to Korthia.

There’s your problem.

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115

I think OP has some misconceptions of XIV.

It’s not WoW. Mythic+ isn’t a thing. You get ExTrials, Raids and three level 90 dungeons at first. Then comes savage and the trial series as well as an ultimate or two.

For other endgame, there’s the deep dungeons, raiding old content min ilevel/no echo, running Ultimates, Hunts, a few insanely tough world bosses (the one under the sea in ShB is wild), treasure maps… or for non-combat, crafting is a lot more in depth than first glance, there’s housing, there’s the Golden Saucer.

There’s a heck of a lot to do. But… it may not be up your alley. And that’s totally fine. In fact I wish we had Mythic+ sort of content in XIV… maybe not the same system but some sort of progressively more difficult small party content. YoshiP alluded to this being a thing eventually but we don’t know more than that.

WoW pvp is just better. I have hope for the 6.1 pvp overhaul but… we’ll see.

As for the story, it just might not be for those who didn’t like it. That’s fine. I personally loved going through the entire MSQ but it’s not going to be a plus for everyone… some people just want to get to endgame and bust skulls. Hell, some of our best raiders (Xenosys Vex for example) hate the story but love the fights.

Anyways, there’s no conspiracy here. Some folks just enjoy XIV and some don’t.

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I think we are all used to the hamster wheels wow has to appreciate other games that respect your time. They also have a different culture that may encourage them to have different mindsets. Like there schooling system, might not leave so much time for students to try out games in the day/night. So they wouldn’t want to play a game like wow with constant chores.

They trust there game to be fun without the menial timegating stuff. Which is nice.

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I gave FF14 a fair go. I have several jobs in the 60-70 range, and leveled my Dancer to 90 and completed the (current) Endwalker MSQ. And then I asked, “Now what?” and I was told “collect tomestones for X gear” and “do raids” and “do daily roulette”, etc. Well, FF14’s game systems may not work exactly like WoW’s do, but all that sounds a lot like what I would do in WoW.

The one thing that I found that FF14 does a million times better than WoW is make me CARE about the story, and especially the characters within it. Those characters in turn care about ME as the “Warrior of Light”. They don’t treat me as a chump. I’m famous, revered, and beloved by the Scions and many of the denizens of Hydaelyn.

Two simple examples of this in FF14:

Summary

a) the cutscene at end of Shadowbringers where the Scions are relaxing, sipping tea, and admiring their new clothes/weapons; Alisae is bored and G’raha joins the group. That cutscene perfectly encapsulates the personalities of each of the Scions and their camaraderie.

b) the “we’ve got dinner” scene in Endwalker where, again, the Scions just show up out of the blue to enjoy a meal with your character, like friends would do IRL.

I understand that many WoW players hate the whole “you are the one” stuff, but since we’ve been painted that way for years now, why not lean in to it? Why am I made to feel like I’m the “champion”, but I’m still doing gopher chores every patch/expansion?

Moreover, the story and character development is criminally bad in WoW, and worsening over time. Did I care that Jaina was prisoner in Torghast? Not really. Oooh, Talia is finally going to see her dad again! Uh, that’s it? Zovaal the Jailer has been manipulating all the events behind the scenes for millennia, the baddest of all baddies who we still barely know nothing about with the upcoming patch ostensibly being the last one of the expansion.

The writing team have not created a compelling story, cast of characters, or spent much time at all developing the existing characters. The other issue with the story is the PTR. Even if you actively try to avoid Wowhead, etc., it’s likely that you WILL get spoiled to some degree before you see the content, either by accident or thanks to someone in chat spamming “Snape kills Dumbledore!”

All that said, I prefer WoW in most ways. The gameplay, the art style, the world and history of Azeroth. FF14 does some things far better than WoW does, but those are changes and improvements that could easily be implemented if Blizzard would swallow their pride.

Unfortunately I have nearly zero confidence Blizzard will do anything but putter along the status quo, tossing out new crumbs attempting to satisfy us just enough to keep our subs rolling.

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One thing I think WoW did well was that, originally, we weren’t cosmic warriors of whatever-is-the-theme-this-expansion. Once WOD pushed the “You are the captain now” storylines and Legion doubled-down on it, I personally couldn’t care less. I was there to slay dragons and collect epic loot. Like you mentioned, I am a cosmic hero now… I will conquer literal Death in Shadowlands… why am I still collecting 12 shiny rocks.

And to FF14’s credit, they have a solid narrative. But FF14 does not feel like an MMO to me; but rather, it’s like an RPG with online functionality. FF14 feels completable where WoW does not. That’s not to say either is good or bad for this, it’s just a difference in the philosophy of “fun.”

To class design’s credit, the combat seems good enough. AOE cap removal was a good change and I’m glad they relented.

I just wish the narrative was honestly scrapped entirely. The one villain left in WoW’s lore is the Void Lords, and I’m pretty sure they are on the same level as the Titans… so there’s probably a Mega Void Lord story somewhere. Meh.

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I agree.
Character movements are strange, the character “slips” during skills.
Skills are cool but some are too performative. This is a bit exaggerated, sometimes to do a frontal blow the character does 5 pirouettes + 3 jumps.
The customization options are vast and interesting but the characters are very…I don’t know I can’t like the Asian style. Although the freedom is phenomenal, I saw a transmog of Jaina in FF and I thought it was amazing, she had the cleavage that doesn’t exist anymore in WoW. But while the transmogs and customizations are good, the style isn’t so great, and for God’s sake have you guys seen how tight the pants are?

Maps annoy me too, the way they are closed by portals and not opened. WoW got us used to it. In fact, GW2 , ESO, are Mmos that also have fully open maps and no portals.

Anyway, I believe it’s all a matter of facing up to a problem Blizzard committed with their game and the direction it was taking.

There is a very serious problem in blizzard: the Devs think they are gods, have you seen their twitters? they simply do what they want, they don’t care about requests and indications that players give and many of them believe that we are a problem, even though we are customers. They are following a minority agenda and forgetting that the game needs to be fun and not political. The opinions and threats they aired on twitter in 2021 was something really serious and problematic…

This doesn’t happen in FF and I believe this whole fight is aimed at showing Blizzard management that they need to have better devs and understand their position.

I’m a programmer, I know the power of it, the feeling of being “very smart” and all the pride it brings. This could drown someone. It can make someone so arrogant to the point of being an insufferable person. Everyone who works in systems development needs to be extremely careful with this kind of feeling.

Well…I think the fight is legitimate and fair…we do need to try something to show Blizzard that in the end, sympathy, simplicity, care for the consumer/customer, avoid getting into political questions, trying to make a environment away from the real world for us to have immersion, these are important things that we all want, and that will take the game to the level it needs to be.

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The Devs that think they’re gods are likely just a tiny, tiny fraction of the Devs. And to be fair, they probably shouldn’t be on twitter in the first place. better to stay anonymous than get virtually yelled at and given death threats by “fans.”