It’s because Blizzard is mulling over insane ideas like ilvl squish, this is what the no changes crowd warned us about( i was a some changes type)… Too many changes = not the same experience. Why even call it classic? It’s like restoring a 69 Camaro and putting all modern parts in it over original… It’s not really a classic anymore.
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Agreed, personal attacks are always used
Of course they did because they wouldnt be able to play broken classes and gatekeep just like the did in wow classic. I would think people would want everyone to be inclusive but some persist in being selfish with the overall … absolutely appauling
What other idiots are you talking about? I seem to see that this whole Burning crusade/Wrath classic forum as a clown show.
This doesn't mean I suddenly swapped sides however.
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Which one is it? Are you being gatekept or are you playing with a guild that will let you play whatever you want?
You can be inclusive and selfless and still choose to play with people that want to play optimally.
What are you on about? What is so selfish about wanting them to re-release wrath as it were? Why even call it wrath if we’re going to completely homogenize every spec class for some paranoia level take of “gatekeeping”? Sounds like you’d love retail btw… No one gatekeeps like you explain it… You can literally lead groups in this game and your gatekeeping problem is solved, forever. 
Hey, I didn’t vote for you (or anyone), but I appreciate the drive to Classic-ify Classic end to end.
The game will be better, IMO, if we steer it down a different path than what led to modern wow. Classic isn’t worth much if it’s just a nostalgia trip down the exact same solved path that most players have been down before.
Classsic has a certain magic that started in Vanilla and started to shift as it tried for more convenience in later expansions. We have the perspective now that convenience doesn’t always (or often) make for a better game.
Proud of the Classic devs for ripping these superglued bandaids off, and trying to actually suture the problems.
If you weren’t so god damn belligerent you’d have noticed that the ilvl squish was proposed by an original Wrath dev.
You muuuust realize they’re buffing Naxx. Are you up in arms about that too?
If you weren’t so bent on carrying water for Blizzard you’d have noticed this statement:
Yep.
As with WG changes.
As with CWF tomes and dual spec from the start.
The list goes on and on of “know-better-than-OG-changes”.
This is why no changes was a thing. Your opinion is irrelevant as should everyone’s be. Objective standards, that being no changes, is what we all consented to.
You fail to realize the company who’s running things and their ideas is exactly what led to retail, yes? Because you’re asking that exact same company, with these contaminated ideas, to change WotLK from what it was to more of what Retail is. Stat squishes. “Harder” PvE content.
Yes because the essence of the expansion is a “band-aid”.
Pure, undiluted, self-centeredness.
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You certainly don’t know better than even a single OG dev. You should take your own advice.
Maaaan don’t be such a baby. I think it’s an objectively good change. I know Blizz screwed up enough to make retail what it is. That doesn’t mean every idea that could conceivably come from them, particularly ones that are geared toward avoiding retail design patterns, should be dismissed out of hand.
Ultimately the only reason I talk with you blood vessel bursters is because I want to understand your perspective and help represent the alternative, but if you’re so manically entrenched in your own beliefs, it’s worthless. Internet discourse 101 ig.
I can at least relax knowing that strictly from a gameplay perspective, Blizz seems to be taking things in a direction I can mostly get behind, which is even better knowing they’re not easy crowd pleasers.
If they could get a hand on server health, RMT, and stop the empty progressivism, I wouldn’t have any complaints.
The only reason we haven’t got RDF is because they don’t want to “reatail-ize” WotLK. The only reason we have the LFG tool that’s similar to the retail tool is because people freaked out about the previous point.
Honestly the best solution to wintergrasp is to let the players who stacked one faction on a single server sleep in the bed they made for themselves.
I mean it’s what I did in wrath because most servers had severe imbalances. it’s called AFKing in wintergrasp for 20 minutes then running the raid with zero fear of ever losing the base.
Never said I do which is why I’m advocating for no changes.
It’s “being a baby” for you to suck up to Blizzard? Your entire previous post is very much doing exactly that.
If it was objective it wouldn’t be based on your opinion. No changes is not a subjective method of measurement. Get your ego out of the equation.
Stat squishing and making raids/dungeons more akin to M+ is not making things “less retail-like”, it is doing the exact opposite. Your “objectively good” perspective is proven incorrect by this point alone.
You assume that the people who are dissatisfied are automatically upset. You also assume that you’re somehow in an intellectual position with the authority and capability to “educate” people on what you presume they do not know. Again, egotistical, and considering you’re in the same camp as Blizzard, that is hardly surprising. We understand what’s going on better than you, clearly, because you don’t have the foresight to see that what you’re advocating is exactly what retail already is.
Again, your opinion. The facts are that current Blizzard is terrible at making balance changes in their own game. The other fact is that people consented, with their time and dollars, to play a game that was strictly not changed. Just because you “think” it’s a good idea to literally allow Blizzard to lie to the public about what they originally marketed doesn’t change what everyone agreed and consented to.
Or, in short, what you think is “good” does not excuse mass deception. That’s pure narcissism.
LMAO we’ve gotten to the “no u” stage of your argument.
I think it’s an objectively good change. My opinion is that it does objective good for the game. People can say that reducing carbon emissions is bad for the environment, but the fact of the matter is that it is objectively good for environment. Is “the Earth is round” not an objective statement, because some crazy people can’t see past their own entrenched bias? Stop spamming about ego.
Stat squishing does make things less retail-like because it moves away from the “play the patch” retail design archetype.
Please reassess your definition of proof.
When you reject any change out of hand, you aren’t coming from an intellectual place. You’re like an entrenched party voter vs an issue-by-issue voter. If you can’t look at a change and make an objective decision about it without pointing to Blizzard as the reason it’s bad, you’re not being intellectually honest.
You don’t seem to understand the merits of the change, so I’m representing those merits (not representing Blizzard), just like you are representing the things you don’t like about the change. Again, drop the ego BS. My arguing the merits of something isn’t any more egotistical than you arguing the drawbacks. Chill.
eGoTiStIcAl. I understand what retail is, I understand the change. I think the change explicitly moves us away from retail.
Yeah. Duh. I’m representing it as an opinion, not as fact. lol
Oh look. Your opinion! Am I supposed to call you out on that?
Edit: Oh damn, I totally should call you out, because you’re representing an opinion as fact lmao /edit
I was hard line no changes, and still am in many cases. To me, the spirit of no changes is less explicit than you make it. I think no changes should be locked to Vanilla. No changes to the design of Vanilla, which means no changes to:
- Class identity
- Groupmaking (RDF/LFR)
- Summoning (locks only, no summon stones)
- Flying
- Play the expac > play the patch
- Instancing
- Spells/abilities
There’s obviously more that’s changed from Vanilla → TBC → WotLK, but these are a few to give you an idea. Any change that moves us back toward Vanilla design archetypes is a good one IMO.
If you think no changes means leaving everything exactly the same, then yeah, that road objectively leads to retail lol
I hope blizzard sees the same four people arguing in favor of the ilvl squish against the literal rest of the WOTLK Classic community and decides to listen to reason.
I’m not against small quality of life or modernization changes, but we’re talking about completely changing the power of endgame characters relative to the game world.
More than that, this change would impact scaling and skew the power balance as we remember it.
Finally, it would destroy “casual 10 man guilds” completely by invalidating ToC and force everyone to raid Ulduar well into ICC era to min/max their character.
Seeing as the general player base is made up of folks in their 30s-40s now, I think I can speak for most of us when I say that needing to raid two of the longest raids in WoW history every week to be relevant isn’t so appealing now that we have big boy/girl jobs and families.
Again: not opposing all change. Just bad change.
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Nice statement. Too bad it isn’t at all accurate. Are you sucking up to Blizzard? Yes? Well then that’s enough considering the source to verify.
Right, which means it’s your opinion and not based on objectivity at all. Objective is objective. Two and two is four. There is no “I think two and two is four”. It just is. What you think is not how it is.
Is not
The Earth is round no matter what anyone thinks. See how you didn’t have to use a personal disclaimer in that sentence whereas:
you did? Apparently not.
Stat squishing is literally what retail did. It is a retail feature. WotLK is “play the patch”. TBC is “play the patch”. If you want stat squishes then go to retail since that’s where you find them. It’s also where they originated. Retail is not Classic.
The proof is your constant use of “my opinion” and “I think” in relation to you claiming something as objective. Words are not hard nor is context.
Rationality dictates that lies are deceptive. Deceiving someone or a particular party to get your way is sociopathic.
Oh, look, the ultimate failing: bringing politics into a discussion about integrity. Integrity isn’t a political issue. When you promise something and market that promise then turn around and do the opposite, you lied. When you lie for personal benefit, that is wrong. Objectively, lying and manipulating people is sociopathic behavior. Trying to justify it is narcissism.
You do not understand the merits of “not lying to people” which is much more dangerous.
You are, in fact, meritless because you’re condoning lying on the premise that you like what those lies are now changing. Blizzard marketed Classic as no changes. They got the initial investments (subscriptions and time spent leveling 1-60 in the Classic game) then turned around and changed course because of ego, “We think we know better”. You are in that encampment as well given the moral real-estate you try to superimpose upon your opinion by pretending that it has any correlation to objective reality and somehow trumps the morality of not being a pathological liar.
Coming from the person who condones lying from Blizzard because said lying gives him what he wants. Coming from the person who thinks his opinion is objective. Try again.
What you think is quite literally wrong given evidence. Stat squishes are in retail, they are a retail feature. “Harder dungeons and raids”, a M+ feature in essence, is a retail feature. Just because you are saying these are not retail features does not make what you say the case. It’s the opposite.
When an “opinion” is at odds with a fact it is no longer “an opinion”, it is an incorrect staement.
Over a decade of hemorrhaging subscribers.
Constant application of the “systems” everyone on this thread complains about, even yourself.
Constant dismissal of community feedback.
These things aren’t opinions, they are facts, or are you now going to try to pretend that a dying company that relies on whales is somehow more successful than when it was thriving? I won’t hold my breath.
Then you’re not. It’s no changes or changes. Either you want changes or you don’t. You’re not fooling anyone with this pretend-centrism.
Are affected by gear.
Is affected by balance. Balance is affected by gear.
Squishing item levels affects two of the things you “don’t want changes to”, so either you’re a hypocrite or you’re being pathological.
Your opinion is not how the game was. We signed up to play a game that is WotLK, not “IMO WotLK”. No changes is the objective standard. As soon as we start getting into opinions there are going to be people who are left in the dark with no voice at all. I’ll pass on that, and there are quite a few class design changes/balances that I would like to implement myself - but I wouldn’t because that would deface the consent I was given the day people signed up for Classic and what it was marketed as.
Or, in short, I don’t stab people in the back for my own ego.
I’m not. Why are you so stuck on this? I stand to gain literally nothing from them. I think it’s a good idea.
You’re losing the plot dude. You’re talking right past me to some invisible third party you think you’re gonna seem real smart to, but you’re completely skipping the guts of what I’m saying.
Dude, you have no idea what you’re talking about lmao. TBC has people going back to P1 raids through the entire expansion.
What a pseudointellectual way of not responding to what I said. Why even quote me lol
This was my response to you accusing me of being egotistical and trying to “educate” people. Your response here is a red herring. You’re talking past me and it’s not subtle.
You’re like a scratched record. I’ve dismantled all your criticism one by one so now you’re just spamming “you like liars, you’re a bad person!” Just like you were spamming “you’re egotistical!” before.
Lol another one
Stay squished UNDO the retail power creep! This is some simpsons did it BS lol
It is literally an opinion. Are you fooling yourself? Cause you’re not fooling anyone else hahah
No. I explained this immediately after.
Wow dude. You are on some kool aid. What makes you think it makes sense to try to convince me that my opinions aren’t my opinions? I’ve literally criticized changes in this thread.
I legit do not care. My opinion is my opinion and it doesn’t have anything to do with what the game was, is, or will be.
Also who tf is this “we” you keep mentioning? You act like you’re the representative for an ideology.
EGOOOOOOOOO. Can you please leggo my ego? You say you’re not mad but you say cringe indignant stuff like this. Lol
Because you are. You went on a tangent as to how good every little change of theirs was.
Except what you want at the cost of the consent everyone else gave for no changes.
No, you’re saying you want changes because of what you think. I’m saying what you think doesn’t matter because it wasn’t what everyone agreed to. It’s not “looking past” you, you’re conveniently trying to forget what the intent of my points are.
Is that why SWP gear is so much better than everything else?
It is responding. You’re insinuating that I’m being irrational by disregarding any and all changes. Rationality tells you that lying is wrong. Lying is what you’re doing by introducing changes because that’s not what people agreed to when they consented to playing Classic with the advertised “no changes” that Blizzard marketed. Nice try at being disingenuous.
You’re supporting lies with a pathological self-interest. You claim changes are good because you think so. You conveniently forget that to get your changes they must be facilitated by the lie that Blizzard promised no changes. Not hard to understand unless, again, you’re trying to conveniently forget these things in an attempt to strawman someone else.
It’s incredibly egotistical to throw promises out the window because “you think you know better”. That’s what you’re in favor of by changes.
Yep. You have dismantled nothing - which is why you rely on description. You’re describing the course of events how you wish to perceive them. Unfortunate for you.
You support Blizzard lying to people by supporting their changes when Blizzard promised not to do so. Why? Because you want these changes, “you think” they’re good. That’s you at the center of that rationale. That’s literally self-centered. You aren’t willing to own up to it and try to manipulate that perception. That’s unable to see yourself how you are. Narcissism. You’re trying to gaslight your way out of it.
Explanative, not descriptive. Try it sometime.
You aren’t? Weird, because you’re the one advocating changes - for yourself.
Blizzard losing subs over the decades? Fact.
Constant complaints from the communities going unheard? Fact.
Majority of these complaints about game balance/systems? Fact.
It is literally a fact. Again, denying objective reality. Not surprising coming from someone who wants to treat their opinion as gospel.
You didn’t. You said you’re “no changes” then directly after stated how you wanted some changes. So, you’re for changes. Hypocrisy.
You’ve literally supported changing things in this thread.
If you didn’t then you wouldn’t feel the need to constantly dexify. Weird.
Correct, so it should have absolutely zero effect on the game itself. The same goes with everyone else’s opinion, including the devs’, because it was promised at the time of initial investment that it was not going to change.
How is you being a pathological egoist me being mad?
Thanks for the comments. I wouldn’t waste much time on this Killawar fella, he’s clearly a retard.
Being staunchly opposed to any and all ideas presented by what you deem as your “enemy” is a clear sign that you have no critical thinking skills.
You are born of the internet political era where you have been convinced that being mad is somehow being virtuous or enlightened. You’re not.
You’re a malding idiot on the WoW forums who is continually losing with each change the devs of this game make. Each change you tolerate further weakens your credibility - because no matter how much you whine, you play anyways.
You’re a joke, and I love watching people like you lose.