So just come out and say, instead of this bs “I didn’t say that” nonsense you tend to do. If you have an opinion, just freaking own it.
Let me get this straight. You like Role Playing Game elements, but you dont like to Role Play?
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There is different types of role playing.
Just because you don’t want to clap two coconuts together and pretend it’s a horse, doesn’t mean you don’t like the other things roleplaying has.
I’d rather instead of pulling the ripcord, they developed a system over several expansions instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater for a new one every time.
In the case of Covenants, they could start with them in Shadowlands, and then build upon them in the expansions after that. What I hate most about these ‘borrowed’ systems is how temporary they are. Investing in them, getting used to how they work feels almost wasted when you have to learn an entirely new system once a new major expansion rolls around.
That’s not the only problem, though - that’s more of a ‘me’ thing - if they focused on one system and honed it over years, instead of throwing it out for a new iteration every time, we could have something truly great. Instead they seem to overcompensate wildly in response to player feedback.
Garrisons, Class Halls, Artifacts - all could have been something truly great, were they not given up on so quickly. Class Halls, in particular, should have become a staple feature of the game.
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Borrowed powers are a necessary evil. Without them we would either have ability bloat constantly adding new abilities over the course of several expansions, or power creep. These borrowed power expansions exist to give people a false sense of growth every expansion without actually adding to ability bloat, and power creep. excluding the mess that is the corruption system that was just massive power creep.
#PullTheRipcord.
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Come here you little DK, so I can pull your rip cord and create an abomination out of your entrails at my covenant station.
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You fool. I am a hunter using a DK as my puppet.
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Good I can then pull the rip cord on your pet for extra parts for my abomination.
PET? I PLAY MARKSMAN WITH LONE WO-- oh yeah, lone wolf is next to useless.
Leave my pet alone!
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RPG=ROLE PLAYING GAME
Remove the powers from the covenants and u still have your RPG element that you so need.
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I would rather see people voice their concern and displeasure over just silently accepting the situation. At least that way when the wave of “I told you so” hits, the players will have a good reason to feel vindication and catharsis.
I’ve been toying with an alternative to what’s currently in the pipes for SL. Not quite there yet, but the short version is:
- Covenants would be a story-focused decision (events take place through the lens of your covenant, and NPCs acknowledge you as a member of that covenant). Am considering giving each an overworld power (read: can’t be used in raids or dungeons) as a bonus. Covenant choice on its own would not make you weaker or stronger compared to players of different covenants.
- You get 4 Class Abilities (one per zone/covenant), which would be added as a talent row (except they would not be treated as talents since you’d have to unlock each ability as you quest in each of the zones of the expansion; ideally they would be the end-reward for each zone). Since Bastion is the first zone in SL, by the time you finish the storyline there, you’d have only the Kyrian Class Ability, but will unlock more as you continue your adventure.
- At level cap, setting a Class Ability opens up the Conduits window. In this version of the system, Conduits are nodes that can the slotted with traits and abilities (think of a more expansive version of the essences window).
- You can equip any trait or ability to any slot, but have a point restriction. Example would be that a fresh lv60 has 20 points, and traits/abilities have their own point value. That lv60 can slot any abilities/traits so long as their total point value doesn’t surpass 20. The point limit can be increased, though I haven’t decided if I wanted to tie it directly to average item level, make the player grind exp (giving people a reason to do daily quests, world quests, and queue for dungeons) to increase their point limit, or a combination of both.
- I don’t have examples, but the general rule is that ability conduits would have much greater point values than trait conduits.
- Conduits can be acquired through various means. Some of them can be learned from certain pieces of equipment (equip gear with an ability/trait you want to learn, gain EXP until you learn the trait/ability), while others can be gained through quests. Some can be gained by completing several quests given by certain NPCs (I’m tempted to make a friendship system like what we say with the Tillers, but I don’t know how well that would go over). As a catch up mechanic, starting with 9.1 you’d be able to purchase conduits from an NPC for the prior content patch (so when 9.1 hits, an NPC will allow you to purchase conduits introduced in 9.0).
- Because replay value is a thing, conduits can also be powered up. Current tentative caps would be lv3 for “trait” conduits, and lv4 for “ability” conduits. This can be done through killing mobs that give exp or paying a sort of tithe (think of it like the skill training NPCs in Skyrim).
- To help with the longevity of Conduits, classes would get new conduits with content patches (no less than 2, no more than 4 or 5). This doesn’t look like much, but consider that a new trait or ability in the context of a system with a point limit means people can play around with their ability/trait selection to see how these new abilities affect their “build”.
- Incidentally, scribes and enchanters would gain Scroll of Insight (increases the rate at which you can learn conduits from gear and level conduits for 3 hours) and Enchant Ring: Insight (same but permanent and thus less effective), respectively.
- Needless to say, there’d be an achievement for leveling all conduits to their cap.
End result is covenants not affecting player power. Players can still select their build while those that want to optimize can also do that without getting penalized. I do foresee some grumbling over having to gain exp past level cap, though.
Ion literally said there’s the stat playing aspect to rp, it isnt just erping in goldshire m8.
Building your character is part of RP, the issue is most people dont care about building their character and simply change to fit each boss therefore they dont build which is a hallmark of rpgs
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But they don’t. Blizzard literally keeps destroying to create and it’s frustrating.
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Do you have a solution on how to give players powers every expansion, without creating Ability Bloat, or Power Creep?
They can. Most of them don’t expect a debate on their opinion.
I play low-level Battlegrounds. I’m used to things being unbalanced. Opening up Covenants doesn’t solve that issue, at all. There will always be FoTM classes.
No. They need to focus on the covenants and cap player power.
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Off the top of my head - probably resets every 3-4 expansions. Sort of like how it used to be.
Blizzard swings their pendulums too far. They began shaking specs up every expac. Now they’ve gone to a place where the class feels small, incomplete, stagnant and weak without the borrowed powers. So the specs have stayed the same for 3 expacs now (good thing) but they are fundamentally not fun (very bad thing).
I’d rather have bloated, but fun classes, personally.
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Maybe people should give that specific feedback to Blizzard somewhere in a non-hate thread of course. Like an actual feedback thread in beta. Or somewhere else so they can take that. Honestly doubt they read these hate threads much but they might read an actual feedback thread suggesting how to handle ability bloat and power creep differently. Your suggestion isn’t all that different from what they are doing now. It’s just stretchs the borrowed power out a bit longer. They might be okay with that if the players are, although it really didn’t go well for them when they did that last time. People was super angry about the pruning. They still are.
WoW is a MMORPG.
Diablo B devs have desperately tried to make WoW into an action RPG or single player RPG for a while but have failed every step of the way.
I want Blizz to release covenants as they are presented at launch because it means the end of the diablo B team’s dream of trying to change WoW from its MMORPG roots. 
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There’s no difference in a MMORPG to a RPG, Alex Jones.