If You're Not With Us, You're Against Us

[Mugishan-area-52]

Man, you people like the word “troll” a lot. Either you’re really bad at fishing or really bad at internet correspondence. Anything that differs from the normative opinion on the forums is officially trolling, gotcha.

[Xcentrick-area-52]

saying hypotheticals by themselves isnt the problem.

the problem is people are sick of the #justhisonechange posts and to post even a hypothetical question just riles up people and is pretty much trolling.

people post them knowingly to piss people off.

the rare , rare case its someone just new to the forums posting something without knowing is just that, rare.

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

No, anyone making intentionally hyperbolic statements intended to cause offense or annoyance, and then laying the burden of proof at the feet of people who poke holes in their claim… is a troll.

[Mugishan-area-52]

It’s discussion. On a discussion forums. How dare somebody converse.
What, are we supposed to keep posting the same “Hopefully Blizzard will address the Devilsaur Mafia issue in Classic” post over and over again with nothing new?

[Cubic-emerald-dream]

Ok so people are viewing classic as a trip to a museum.

I don’t go to a World War Two museum and start saying “wow… they should include World War One stuff here. That’d be great!”

Let classic be the museum it was meant to be.

Seeing as many WWI weapons were used in WWII, that doesn’t quite work.

[Kerg-scarlet-crusade]

Can you really, truly blame the quick-trigger defensiveness of Classic loyalists ?

They’ve waited 13-15 years for this and they don’t truly know whether or not Blizzard would take posts in the forums seriously, where it would actually change the direction of this retro project. I mean, history says Blizzard doesn’t give two bits what forum posts want (whether backed by a large number or not), but this project seems different. Kaivax has done an excellent job at relaying what we say to the Dev team and responding back.

They’re afraid they could take them seriously, as many posts seem to come across as serious.

Are they truly just trying to ‘humor’ what-ifs? Who would know.

I don’t blame the community for being hostile.

This. I think people are just gun shy. Slippery slope and all that. All of the changes that were gradually put in place from vanilla to BFA started with a few people on the internet asking for seemingly harmless quality of life improvements, and in many people’s minds, those very things ended up destroying the game. After 13 years, this may be our only shot for a return to Classic or a game like it, ever. People are worried that Blizzard might end up trying to please everyone, as they have in the past, and screw it up.

[Xcentrick-area-52]

It’s discussion. On a discussion forums. How dare somebody converse.
What, are we supposed to keep posting the same “Hopefully Blizzard will address the Devilsaur Mafia issue in Classic” post over and over again with nothing new?

the change posts are nothing new though. they are as old as the classic forums going back as soon as they were made.

discussion is fine. trolling is not.

[Mugishan-area-52]

…That’s how debate works. Somebody offered a counter-claim. That is their burden of proof. If you’re getting annoyed by what I’m saying, that’s a personal issue. I’m simply stating that it’s rude and inflammatory to just assume that anybody who discusses anything besides private servers and 1.5 AV should go back to retail because they don’t belong here.

[Swani-arathor (Swani)]

Yeah, I actually found it right now

“I think there will be a lot of tourists,” he adds. "But it doesn’t matter what I think because once we’re committed to doing this at a Blizzard level, which we are, whatever happens is going to happen. If millions of people show up and play for years, that’s awesome. And if just tens of people show up and play for years, we’re fine either way. What’s important to us is that we have this Classic experience people can enjoy, that people do have the opportunity to go back to. This is an important game in videogame history and there’s not a way to go back and experience that today. This is also about preserving something that we think is really important.

https://www.pcgamer.com/this-is-how-blizzard-plans-to-finally-bring-back-vanilla-wow-servers/

[Chawana-altar-of-storms (Chawana)]

“It would be kinda cool if Classic had this” and getting the response “go play retail, you obviously don’t respect us or vanilla” is only going to turn people off of playing Classic.

If that person doesn’t want to play the game for it being vanilla, then they won’t want to actually play it in a few days/weeks anyway.

Retail exists because of all the ‘upgrades’ WoW has gotten, and all these “nice things” people keep suggesting only bring it closer and closer to there…AKA the place many of us don’t want to be.

That said, let me correct your title. Rather than:
“If you’re not with us, you’re against us”
I prefer
“If you don’t want to play vanilla, don’t play it.”

It’s incredibly simple, and the whole loot trading argument has been mostly over with for a long time now.

Your post reeks of being a troll, but I decided to reply seriously anyway.

[Mugishan-area-52]

But as several people have mentioned, that’s not Blizzard’s goal in this project is it?
To please everyone? As Blizzard HAS mentioned that this is to be a museum piece, it’s weird to assume that they’re going to listen to anybody, including the people who want certain parts of 1.5 AV or somebody who wants Isle of Conquest in Vanilla.
Are you saying your faith in Blizzard is that low that they’re going to draw little doodles on the Mona Lisa?

[Oblivion-moon-guard]

Slippery slope and all that. All of the changes that were gradually put in place from vanilla to BFA started with a few people on the internet asking for seemingly harmless quality of life improvements, and in many people’s minds, those very things ended up destroying the game

Yep. It’s a slippery slope. Any systems changes could have a huge impact on the game. Look at flying or LFG or guild perks. Blizz obviously didn’t know/have the foresight to see how they would negatively impact the game in the way it did.

[Shau-wyrmrest-accord]

Thanks for the work, Swani.

Not much more needs to be said. From more of a cynical business perspective, having an “authentic as possible” Vanilla server will give Blizzard more ammunition against private servers. Even if they weren’t able to physically shut them down depending on host country, there’s a promise of a stable, uncorrupt, Blizzard branded Vanilla server to lure in people from private servers.

Once you start making changes, that’ll just inflame and rejuvenate the private server scene.

#nochanges is a service to the people that wanted these servers for a long time as well as a shrewd act against private servers.

[Sabetha-turalyon (Sabetha)]

Even if you post “hey what if…” that’s still advocating for doing it in a sense.

Which people get defensive about because it’s been non stop people trying to undermine Classic with changes to content or class balance or whatever “small tiny change” that people think should be added.

People are rather tired of defending the simple desire to go back and play a game they used to love, as it was in 2006.

and the word troll is thrown around a lot when a 0 post poster comes in talking about changes to Classic. Especially since these forums track your post count by character and not by account, it’s assumed that those people are just alts of somebody who wants to troll(or at best a new player that didn’t bother to do a basic search before making a new topic).

If I wanted to troll these forums as another poster, I wouldn’t even need to log out of my bnet account.

[Mergons-terenas]

they don’t belong here.

this

[Swani-arathor (Swani)]

Thanks for the work, Swani.

Yw bow

[Badminou-kelthuzad]

Sand? I hate sand…

[Mugishan-area-52]

So somebody who’s never posted on a forums before is officially a troll due to never having posted on the forums before? Nice exclusionary community you’ve got.

[Shau-wyrmrest-accord]

So somebody who’s never posted on a forums before is officially a troll due to never having posted on the forums before? Nice exclusionary community you’ve got.

It’s one thing to try to take part in existing discussions by making posts in existing topics. Get people to know what your interests are and what’s bringing you to Classic, what your thoughts on various topics.

Another thing to come to Classic forums swinging with change threads without introducing yourself, interests, and intentions first.

Can you blame them?

[Mugishan-area-52]

Do I need to introduce myself? Do I need to tell you my whole life story, love life, bank account information, SSN, before I’m allowed to post on this forum? If I did, would you care about what I said more? The only information I posted that is relevant to my own experiences was about my raiding habits in retail WoW, which I’ve been told is a lie.
So, no, I’m not particularly keen on it.