They agree with the system they willingly participate in, and loot council is not decided by a single person. These raids lasted for years, and we were all in good terms and happy to be raiding together. In the end of the day, the items were distributed in a way to best benefit the entire raid, not whoever bought more gold.
What problem am I, exactly? You’ve been accusing other people of making personal attack instead of arguments, yet here you are doing the same thing.
Again, my guild isn’t toxic. We all choose to play together and agree on a loot system, same as yours. Stop trying to make something where there is nothing.
Thank you for clarifying. My point on guilds are only 2 of the 10 items on the list and it is regarding bias. If you’ve learned how to prevent bias in the world congrats, but the fact you are fighting the mere existence of it suggests maybe it is you who is biased.
Cheating is NOT gameplay.
GDKP is propped up by and props up RMT’s.
There are 1000’s of single player games that you can go cheat in. Perhaps you’d be happier there.
You’re missing the point. A good group of people takes a lot of time and energy to create. You encounder bad apples along the way. GDKP limits the impact of the bad apples for all the reasons I outlined. If im not running GDKP all I can do is react to the bad apples instead of being immune to the toxic behavior we all try to avoid. If you never recruit anyone new maybe this doesnt apply to you, congrats.
Your point was that trade should cease to exist in order to fight RMT.
My point - which you conveniently ignored most of - was that it’s better to have trade even if it brings some incentive to RMT with it as it’s an important part of an MMO, and that you can just use a different loot system without any issue.
The “actual problem” here is the fact that GDKP and any form of monetizing BoP raid items brings a greatly increased incentive to RMT while not offering anything indispensable for the game to work (unlike trading BoE items).
Like I said I addressed this to death. Only 2 of the behaviors mentioned are in reference to guild raids. GDKP guilds arent for everyone and I fully appreciate that they are most popular in pugs. Stop trying to twist my words and act like everything im saying is regarding my internal guild runs.
What if you guys just didn’t cheat, or deliberately take advantage of cheating?
Seems you made an error in here, so I fixed that for you.
You act like without GDKP nobody will run anything, and frankly that is just flat false.
You dont see the problem here? Scale this to 40 man raids dropping 3 items per boss and you anticipate no loot disagreements? Not gonna happen.
DKP doesnt work for pugs and it discourages new players because the currency is unique. I do offer a solution in the OP tho.
One of the motivating reasons Blizzard has banned GDKPs is to re-emphasize being in a guild. Many of the scenarios here can be resolved by a well-run guilds. If a guild isn’t well-run then players are free to move onto one that is.
I feel like this is a bit of a fall-out from retail’s de-emphasizing of guilds. Between LFR and the other myriad ways there are to play the game outside of a guild, your average player may be conditioned to expect participating in content without committing to a group of players. That is the antithesis of what Classic is.
Perhaps people should try being more social in a massively multiplayer online game.
Sounds like a compromise that people are willing to make, thats fine. But you said you have none of the problems I mentioned. That’s certainly not true. Loot councils often dont agree and must vote. Players certainly feel differently. This builds and eventually loot councils will become biased. Hard to see from the inside. I’ve been on loot councils for many years.
I’m not attacking you im saying if you can’t acknowledge bias, maybe it is you who is biased.
Thanks, I’m not cheating.
Whats the difference between gdkp and boe items exactly? One has some text that says bop? They both offer avenues to RMT, acknowledged. Solve RMT then. Or, ban everything while you’re at it. GDKP is not uniquely the issue here.
I’ve never once suggested that toxic players do not exist. I simply find the idea that the only way to keep players from being toxic is to institute GDKP to be an absurd claim that doesn’t match the experience most people have had with this game over the last two decades.
Again with assuming that nobody else can find a decent group of people to play with and not realizing that it is only a comment about your own experiences.
The problems come along with toxic players.
If someone needs a special loot system to prevent you from rolling on items you don’t want, excluding someone from loot b/c of personal bias, exchanging or selling loot behind everyone else’s back, leaving a raid after your item doesn’t drop, leaving after a single wipe, and refusing to go to a raid to help others once you’ve gotten what you need then they are a toxic player. That isn’t the loot system’s failure, it is the player’s failure.
No loot system is perfect, but you are again blaming a loot system for bad player behavior. The solution to toxic players is to not play with them. If you follow that advice, it absolutely will be so rare that it won’t bother you. You continue to just dismiss the experience of everyone else telling you that they do not have these problems in their guild. Instead of doing that, you should try some self-examination to see why you are surrounding yourself with people that would be toxic monsters without GDKP.
I missed that. That’s what I get for skimming lol.
I like this idea and we’ve certainly seen it in other xpacs, but I can’t help but remember something Faxmonkey once said. He was a popular mage back in original Vanilla who put out awesome videos like Stupid Mage Tricks. Anyways, he said something to the effect that WoW was different from other games because of how you experienced the highs in the game. They were generally few and far between but when they happened, they were big. Instead of a small adrenalin drop from consistent wins you’d get these huge dumps, whether by winning a 1vX in PVP or getting a super rare awesome piece of loot.
I think about that a lot because I’ve experienced bigger highs getting some rare purple from a 20-year-old raid than I have mythic raiding with the small accumulation of tokens and downpour of loot. Classic is different and adding loot tokens like that may indeed be a good solution to the problems you’ve listed, but I’m concerned it’ll make Classic too much like, well, not Classic.
I think the solution is to ultimately bring back - somehow - the necessity, or at least advantage, of being in a guild.
Players post in the forums their personal MS bis wishlist. A wishlisted item drops, and we inspect players to check who gets the biggest upgrade this time. If it’s close, we use attendance as a tiebeaker. If their attendance is similar, we let them roll.
Either way, the player who didn’t get the item still benefits from a stronger raid group and a much higher chance of earning the item next time it drops.
Where is the drama? Where is the bias? Would it really have been better for the group if a player who bought gold got the item for their OS or it was just going to be replaced by a better item later, while it was BiS for another player?
Go look at era or wotlk and see for yourself, the community rejects these traditional loot systems in favor of gdkp, for the reasons I’m highlighting. None of which are addressed by this ban.
Most of your points can basically be summarized as “My guild/pug is full of bad actors” and honestly the easiest way to solve that is to be social and join another guild. Most of these things have never happened to me or any other player in any raiding guild I was a part of:
Keep in mind that I never ever raided in a hardcore guild and still had great experiences with everyone, they exist, they are out there, you just need to find them.