If you're banning GDKP, what alternative solution are you offering?

[Bitcoinmoon-benediction]

@Radigar-penance-au

I’ve played since Vanilla and in 20 years of playing this game I have literally never been part of a guild that would tolerate the kind of toxic behaviors you outlined. Frankly, your entire list can be solved by simply finding a good group of people to play with. If people come in and turn out to be bad, kick them out and find new people until you have a good group. It’s almost as if community is the real solution to your problems.

This is not possible for PUGs

[Bergelmir-fairbanks]

@Radigar-penance-au

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

Which one do you want me to respond to?

It’s all “don’t do it” “not a problem” “don’t invite them”

Clearly we disagree that this is even a concern in the first place. That’s fine, but we have nothing to debate.

Respond to each of them please. That’s how a debate works. I’ve responded to each of your points showing how the problems you outline either are not real problems or already have adequate solutions.

We have no baseline reality with which to debate. You seem to think that the problems don’t exist. I assert that they do. You’re offering thin arguments like “don’t invite toxic players” as if that was ever the intention to begin with. I mean you’re saying the problems don’t exist, then you turn around and say when they do exist just don’t invite them again. But the damage is already done.

Respectfully, I’m choosing not to engage with such obviously baseless posts.

[Nascien-proudmoore]

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

It isn’t the developer’s job to tell the community how to play the game. It is their job to listen. In this instance they are ignoring the community’s solution and imposing draconian policies that eliminate the gameplay that many people find fun.

It is the job of the game developers to set the rules for how their game is supposed to work and how they want the players to behave. They are making it clear that GDKPs are a behavior they do not want to see in their game. It encourages illegal behaviors that can hurt some players (RMTs and financial accounts compromised) and also degrades the game (artificial inflation of the in game economy). Is it draconian of Blizzard to have policies that discourage behavior such as griefing and harassment?

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

It is their job to listen.

It is good if they listen to player feedback. However, they are not obligated to make changes that go against their vision for the game.

[Bergelmir-fairbanks]

@Radigar-penance-au

Lol, what on earth are you talking about? You don’t have to run through every toxic player on a server before you find 20-30 people that are decent.

But you have to run through every toxic player if you want to never experience the problems I’ve outlined. In a GDKP you never experience them from the start.

[Radigar-penance-au]

@Bitcoinmoon-benediction

This is not possible for PUGs

Then don’t run PUGs. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Finding a guild with decent human beings has always been the best solution for avoiding toxic groups. If you run PUGs, you are going to run into toxic players and no loot distribution system will ever prevent that.

It seems like a bunch of people are allergic to community and then complain that they are surrounded by terrible people. Yes, that’s how every MMO as well as just life amongst other people works.

[Bergelmir-fairbanks]

@Nascien-proudmoore

It is the job of the game developers to set the rules for how their game is supposed to work and how they want the players to behave. They are making it clear that GDKPs are a behavior they do not want to see in their game. It encourages illegal behaviors that can hurt some players (RMTs and financial accounts compromised) and also degrades the game (artificial inflation of the in game economy). Is it draconian of Blizzard to have policies that discourage behavior such as griefing and harassment?

Thanks again for actually having a conversation.

You’re right, except in my view it isn’t the dev’s game it is ours. And if you were to ask them they would say the same.

I freely admit GDKP has problems, but it is the best option we have they they’re removing it without even understanding why the community flocks to it and what might be a better alternative. It is not their job to shove the traditional loot systems that get rejected in every iteration of classic wow in our face and tell us that’s how we have to play.

[Bergelmir-fairbanks]

@Radigar-penance-au

Then don’t run PUGs. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Thanks for admitting how bad this will be for the game.

[Radigar-penance-au]

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

But you have to run through every toxic player if you want to never experience the problems I’ve outlined. In a GDKP you never experience them from the start.

Ummmm, no.

All you have to do to avoid the problems you are talking about is to find a decent group of people to surround yourself with (i.e. a good guild) and play with those people. This isn’t rocket science.

[Nascien-proudmoore]

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

You’re right, except in my view it isn’t the dev’s game it is ours. And if you were to ask them they would say the same.

I don’t think they would say that at all.

[Bergelmir-fairbanks]

@Radigar-penance-au

Ummmm, no.

All you have to do to avoid the problems you are talking about is to find a decent group of people to surround yourself with (i.e. a good guild) and play with those people. This isn’t rocket science.

Tell me how you recruit new players that you don’t yet know while at the same time understanding that they will never do any of the behaviors that your guild disagrees with.

[Bergelmir-fairbanks]

@Nascien-proudmoore

I don’t think they would say that at all.

There are quotes of it, but I’m okay with us disagreeing on that point. I’m tired.

[Radigar-penance-au]

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

Thanks for admitting how bad this will be for the game.

Yes, the game is bad if you don’t find yourself a decent community. So is every social activity in life. Why do you act like it’s impossible to curate the list of people you associate with?

[Bergelmir-fairbanks]

@Radigar-penance-au

Yes, the game is bad if you don’t find yourself a decent community. So is every social activity in life. Why do you act like it’s impossible to curate the list of people you associate with?

I have a community, and I still host pugs regularly. As do many, many players in wow. Have you seen trade chat and LFG?

[Radigar-penance-au]

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

Tell me how you recruit new players that you don’t yet know while at the same time understanding that they will never do any of the behaviors that your guild disagrees with.

“Never?”

Who said anything about “never” being the goal? Any activity that requires you to deal with other people will sometimes involve bad interactions. Are you going to honestly tell me that you’ve never had a bad interaction with someone in a GDKP run? I’m sorry, but that simply isn’t believable.

Find a decent community and you will minimize those bad interactions. That is and always has been the best way to enjoy group content.

[Punchboi-lone-wolf]

Sorry GKDP’s are still banned. Nice wall of text though

[Cholula-wyrmrest-accord]

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

Is that why Era and WoTLK are all GDKP?

Everyone who didn’t want to buy gold left those a long time ago.

[Nascien-proudmoore]

I mean, telling the player base something vague like “this is your game” is great for keeping people subscribed to a game that needs to grow and evolve. At the end of the day, game developers need a direction for the game and it may not agree with several people. I saw this quite clearly from Blizzard when almost all feedback from Arcane Mages and Shadow Priests was ignored during Dragonflight beta testing.

If GDKPs are really keeping the game afloat, Blizzard will definitely get rid of the ban. At the moment it seems they think they do more harm than good for both the health of the game and their vision.

[Amireyn-lava-lash]

I find it hard to believe that Era and WotLK are 100% or near 100% GDKP runs.
If that’s true, though, then the desire to ban GDKPs makes a lot more sense.

[Oblivinaties-mankrik]

why are you attacking him personally and not speaking to the issue at hand? shows you maturity level here

you seem to think everyone the GDKPs use a CC but thats far from the truth… people earn there gold in other ways and enjoy the Pros that GDKPs offer, something that you seem to so casually want to overlook and take the path of intellectual lazyness and assume it boils down to swiping and not “earning” their gear

[Yehmi-trollbane]

At least in Wrath its rather close to 100%.