If you're banning GDKP, what alternative solution are you offering?

[Zaalg-ashkandi]

Yeah that effort of swiping the credit card is brutal.

[Radigar-penance-au]

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

Summarized as “just don’t do bad things and nobody else will either”

That’s not a fair summary of what was said and you know it.

Do you care to respond to what I said point by point the same way I took the time to do or do you just want to continue to whine, play the victim, and pretend no one will debate you? The point by point response I gave is what debate looks like. I tell you that as someone who has competed in, coached, and judged debate.

If you don’t want to engage in that way, that’s fine, but claiming no one will debate you is downright dishonest. You are the one absolutely refusing to engage with any of the criticisms of your position.

[Bergelmir-fairbanks]

@Radigar-penance-au

That’s not a fair summary of what was said and you know it.

You literally said “don’t do that” as an attempt to counter my statement about problematic behavior with rolls and loot council. I think that’s a pretty good summary, no?

@Radigar-penance-au

• If you don’t want an item, don’t roll on it.
• Rolls don’t have personal bias.
• If it’s for your main spec you can roll on it. Don’t gate keep.
• If you don’t need the item, you can’t roll on it.
• See #4 above.
• If you have a toxic raid member who leaves because their item didn’t drop, then don’t invite them back.
• If you have a toxic player that leaves after 1 wipe, then don’t invite them back.
• This should never be a problem in a decently populated guild.
• This isn’t a problem, it’s just how RNG works. No loot system can guarantee that no one will walk away empty-handed nor should it.
• This isn’t a problem. People don’t have to play content that they don’t find fun and entertaining.

Which one do you want me to respond to?

It’s all “don’t do it” “not a problem” “don’t invite them”

Clearly we disagree that this is even a concern in the first place. That’s fine, but we have nothing to debate.

[Amireyn-lava-lash]

You do realize GDKPs would exist even if there was no RMT at all, right?
GDKPs only exist because RNG loot is an awful, exploitive system that frequently leaves players behind. If you think you need to buy gold to have any gold at all, I don’t know what to tell you.
You’re confusing paid boosts with GDKP. All GDKP means is that if you don’t get items, you get gold instead of absolutely nothing to show for the run.

[Zaalg-ashkandi]

Yet somehow the game got by for nearly two decades without GDKPs.

The whales can cry all they want. No more buying your gear. Boohoo.

[Nascien-proudmoore]

In a world where bots do not exist and the developers have no intended way for the game to be played, it is a neat solution.

In a world where bots will always exist, it is another source to encourage RMTs which sets artificially high inflation rates on the in game economy. In a world where the developers have an intended way for players to receive items from raids, well, there is nothing to argue since the developer intentions will always win.

[Oblivinaties-mankrik]

Says the people that cried and kicked their feet to blizzard relentlessly to ban GDKPs

[Amireyn-lava-lash]

Good for you - it’s left plenty others in the dust because they didn’t gear up as fast as their group.
You don’t need to buy gold to do GDKPs. According to users on the forum, items in GDKPs are going for 10-30g bids, which is a few hours of clicking on pretty flowers (if that) or a handful of quests at cap.
You don’t actually care about the concept of people buying things, you just want to be a bully.

[Oblivinaties-mankrik]

what do you mean play the game normally? there are a variety of different ways people play the game, raid and loot systems used

[Bergelmir-fairbanks]

@Nascien-proudmoore

In a world where bots do not exist and the developers have no intended way for the game to be played, it is a neat solution.

In a world where bots will always exist, it is another source to encourage RMTs which sets artificially high inflation rates on the in game economy. In a world where the developers have an intended way for players to receive items from raids, well, there is nothing to argue since the developer intentions will always win.

It isn’t the developer’s job to tell the community how to play the game. It is their job to listen. In this instance they are ignoring the community’s solution and imposing draconian policies that eliminate the gameplay that many people find fun. There is a good reason GDKP takes over in every iteration of classic wow. It is the most fair and rewarding loot system in the game, despite its flaws. Want to improve on it? Why don’t you talk to the GDKP community and find out why they flock to it? That’s my attempt here.

[Yehmi-trollbane]

Not swiping = normally

[Wågyu-crusader-strike]

Anger pain darkness

[Oblivinaties-mankrik]

says the people that complained about others pref loot system, in this case GDKP

[Killercheebo-benediction]

Gdkp has been primary loot method in Korea since 2005

Blizzard don’t know what they’re talking about when they claim it wasn’t part of vanilla experience

[Yehmi-trollbane]

Its a loot distribution system, not loot system. The loot system is still master loot.

[Radigar-penance-au]

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

You literally said “don’t do that” as an attempt to counter my statement about problematic behavior with rolls and loot council. I think that’s a pretty good summary, no?

No, it isn’t a good summary. I didn’t say “don’t do that,” as a solution. I said that many of the toxic behaviors you describe already have a solution, which is that you don’t invite those toxic people back. For some reason, you don’t like that solution, but you haven’t explained why it is inadequate.

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

Which one do you want me to respond to?

It’s all “don’t do it” “not a problem” “don’t invite them”

Clearly we disagree that this is even a concern in the first place. That’s fine, but we have nothing to debate.

Respond to each of them please. That’s how a debate works. I’ve responded to each of your points showing how the problems you outline either are not real problems or already have adequate solutions.

I’ve played since Vanilla and in 20 years of playing this game I have literally never been part of a guild that would tolerate the kind of toxic behaviors you outlined. Frankly, your entire list can be solved by simply finding a good group of people to play with. If people come in and turn out to be bad, kick them out and find new people until you have a good group. It’s almost as if community is the real solution to your problems.

[Dangermouse-living-flame]

No one cares, gold buyer.

[Yehmi-trollbane]

Actually surprised how many people are actual gold buyers. First time where they are unhinged.

[Bergelmir-fairbanks]

@Radigar-penance-au

I said that many of the toxic behaviors you describe already have a solution, which is that you don’t invite those toxic people back. For some reason, you don’t like that solution, but you haven’t explained why it is inadequate.

Because this isn’t a solution. You have to run through every toxic person on the server, and every one of their alts? Good luck with that.

[Radigar-penance-au]

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

Because this isn’t a solution. You have to run through every toxic person on the server, and every one of their alts? Good luck with that.

Lol, what on earth are you talking about? You don’t have to run through every toxic player on a server before you find 20-30 people that are decent.