If you don't like RDF, you can not use it. RDF will not be the retail/cata decline!

[Robokappa-sargeras (Robokappa)]

i cant use it and neither can you.
just as the Lord intended.

[Myxir-old-blanchy]

@Maxium-grobbulus

If you don’t like the game, you can just not play it.

I like the game and believe that will be better with RDF. Simple as that.

[Zaalg-ashkandi]

@Ziryus-pagle

And keep in mind the version of the game they swore was perfect and would play for eternity is still actually available for them to play but instead of playing it they’re here dragging wrath classic down and vanilla classic is a ghost town.

“WoW was so much better before all the conveniences and changes that started in Wrath.”

Meanwhile, Classic Era….crickets

[Myxir-old-blanchy]

@Zaalg-ashkandi

“WoW was so much better before all the conveniences and changes that started in Wrath.”

Wrong. WoW in WotLK was amazing. Cataclysm started to ruin it via destroying 99% of the RPG in the game and putting ridiculous things like lv 10 warlocks with doomguards, which in classic required a long ritual, killed one player involved and the doomguard could only be parcialy enslaved by a max level warlock.

Cata is not perfect. Too much number inflation and too much gear dependency for my taste. But is still amazing.

[Zaalg-ashkandi]

@Axesfiend-bladefist

@Myxir-old-blanchy

If you don’t like RDF, you can just not use it and group in the old way.

This has been discussed… I lost count how many times in the past few months. The past of least resistance: people will flock to this system for its convenience, leaving those that dislike it with a much reduced pool of players to choose from to the point that they would have no other choice to use the system too.

That’s a poor argument. Telling people an option shouldn’t exist because more people would use it is very self-centered, and actually hypocritical. Especially in light of how many people argue against RDF.

Do you truly love the manual group forming process? Because I keep hearing that leads to so many social interactions. Do you not love flying afk to a dungeon? Because I keep hearing how that adds so much to the world. If you did love it…what’s the problem with having an option of RDF? Nothing stops you from doing those things, or anyone who actually values them. Because you being against an RDF option kind of tells me you’re not being sincere with what you say. Suddenly you’re worried about losing people from the pool, and having to take longer to form groups. That’s not the things anti-rdfers have been claiming to value.

Also, maybe the pool of players would be smaller, but so what? Wouldn’t you rather have a pool of players who actually have the same values as you, and are playing for the same reasons, and the same goals? Who form groups in such a manner because they want to, not because they simply have no other choice? You purport to putting the amazing social interactions that comes from not having RDF at the apex of your experience. But when push comes to shove, you don’t want to lose people to group with. You don’t want the process to take longer. You don’t want to have to struggle to form groups. The very things you (the general, collect anti-RDF posters) claim pro-RDFers are: lazy and entitled.

I would suggest to such people to figure out what you actually want from this game. Why you’re playing it. What you value. Because there’s no consistency in these anti-rdf posts. All I see is hypocrisy and a desire to control how others play the game.

[Myxir-old-blanchy]

Amazing post. When he says “if comes and is optional, less people will use my favorite way”, he is admitting that most people will use such feature.

Using that logic, why not ban people who uses questie? More people using it and searching google = less exploration. And why not remove all PvE servers? As they take away population from PvP servers?

[Axesfiend-bladefist]

@Myxir-old-blanchy

he is admitting that most people will use such feature.

@Zaalg-ashkandi

That’s a poor argument.

Well, you both are entitled to your opinions. However, there are many effects and definitions given by social sciences and other fields to support these statements. Like I’ve said, it has been discussed on different and multiple occasions: The Path of Least Resistance, The Broken Windows Effect, The Effort-Reward Value, Intrinsic vs Extrinsic Rewards, studies on socialization in online gaming, just to mention some of these. You want to call these arguments self-centered and hypocritical? Science doesn’t care about your opinion, because it is unbiased.

[Axesfiend-bladefist]

@Zaalg-ashkandi

Telling people an option shouldn’t exist

Another problem with pro-RDF, is the constant control of the narrative; I’ve never stated that it shouldn’t exist. At this point, I’m not even surprised, this behavior is more than expected, followed by discreting and insulting.

@Zaalg-ashkandi

Because you being against an RDF option kind of tells me you’re not being sincere with what you say.

Luckily, you don’t get to decide when I’m being sincere or not.

@Zaalg-ashkandi

Also, maybe the pool of players would be smaller, but so what?

Good thing I am the one that is self-centered and hypocritical.

There are a lot of contradictions in your words, but I’m done trying to be logical. Sadly, people don’t come here to have logical discussions; it has come down to ranting and accepting only those arguments that suit pro-RDF narrative.

Nothing new here, this thread should be flagged, for it violates the CoC: Creating Duplicate Threads.

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Myxir-old-blanchy

Amazing post. When he says “if comes and is optional, less people will use my favorite way”, he is admitting that most people will use such feature.

Using that logic, why not ban people who uses questie? More people using it and searching google = less exploration. And why not remove all PvE servers? As they take away populat ion from PvP servers?

Having options allows people to do a cost benefit decisions of those various options. And the reality is that for just pugging dungeons when all you want to do is get the dungeon done RDF is the obvious winner. It’s not always the winner but for how most people run dungeons RDF is the best choice. Not because it’s “more convenient” but simply because for the end result people want it’s a better choice than chat pugging. And this is ignoring that in many cases without RDF dungeons don’t get run at all which makes RDF the only option.

Another issue is that some people(largely the anti RDF crowd) have a super rose tinted view of how vanilla really was. And optional features like RDF because of their popularity shatter that view, without RDF they can stick their fingers in their ears and continue to pretend that rose colored view is true. Despite it not in any way reflecting the actual old school wrath community at large or how dungeons really get played in classic.

[Aurumai-grobbulus]

@Daysgoneby-atiesh

i love how this small percentage of players, who most assuredly bogged down the forums for YEARS with their “we want vanilla classic” “we want TBCC” disregarding all the people telling them to drop it, its never going to happen, move on… they pushed through and got to play the games they wanted for 3 years.

They didn’t create Classic just because it was asked for non-stop. For almost a decade, fans literally begged Blizzard for “legacy servers” and even at BlizzCon, the convention that was meant to be a celebration of the fans and a special event for the most dedicated among them, the answer was always a smug resounding “No.” The only reason why Classic ever happened was that the private server community grew to such a critical mass that Activision Blizzard’s corporate shareholders could no longer ignore how much potential revenue their company was turning their noses up at.

Classic wasn’t meant to simply bring back old Azeroth just for the sake giving the fans what they wanted. It was to scoop up some of the millions of private server players they had driven away over the years in their scummy Mickey Mouse hands and start charging them a sub fee for the versions of the game they were going to play – with or without Blizzard’s permission.

Make no mistake; Activision Blizzard simply wanted to monetize the gigantic number of players who wanted old versions of the game rather than wasting their resources on sending private investigators to harrass the admins of successful private servers at their doorsteps in the middle of the night.

---

@Zaalg-ashkandi

“WoW was so much better before all the conveniences and changes that started in Wrath.”

Meanwhile, Classic Era….crickets

@Zaalg-mankrik

Connected realms? Are you referring to the cross-realm dungeon finder? Because that’s all that Wrath added in that regard. And there were cross-realm bgs since Vanilla.

I think both those additions were terrible, btw. The last time I really cared about pvp was before patch 1.12 after which point pvp just became about killing and fighting alongside strangers. And the dungeon finder in Wrath destroyed the pve community that LFR finished off in the next expansion. But sadly it’ll be in Wrath since they just use the last patch and every system that existed at the end of the expansion. But out in the open world at least it’s just you and your fellow server players.

@Zaalg-mankrik

No, no Classic should be run just like Retail, because WoW becoming a lobby game of strangers worked out so well the first time.

@Zaalg-mankrik

Originally the game kind of forced you to be social. You had to group up. You had to make friends. And Blizzard removed all that over the years. Starting really with the Dungeon Finder in Wrath.

WoW just became a lobby game where you queue up for things, join random strangers, do your thing, and move on. Never see or talk to them again. There’s literally no reason to communicate with anyone outside of Mythics. Other players might as well be bots. I don’t know how anyone calls WoW an mmorpg anymore. They’ve completely forsaken the mmo audience.

And it was sad to see that same warped audience infect Classic. Especially after TBC’s boost, which brought them in even bigger droves. They treat it like Retail. Just look at the forums. I guess that was inevitable. The community makes an mmo, and the community is nothing like it was back in the day. And it’s the devs’ fault for the direction they took this game. But it is what it is and it’s not going to change.

Oops!

[Corruptionn-stormrage]

Hey genius, look at the other 8 million threads about RDF, and tell me how many of them claim the game is dead lol. It’s a perfectly acceptable response to dumb trolls like the op. They are all the same few posters anyways. But sure be that guy.

[Zaalg-ashkandi]

Yes, they’re hypocritical. That post was the nicest way I could say, “Anti-rdfers are full of .”

And that includes the clowns working on Classic.

[Axesfiend-bladefist]

Very constructive and mature of you. This is why we can’t have a conversation. Welcome to my ingore list.

[Zaalg-ashkandi]

My day just got a little better. How can I possibly dispute SCIENCE?

[Beèfd-faerlina]

Yooo lmfaoooo

Nice find. Dude has no logical consistency and the memory of a goldfish.

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

You want to claim rdf is optional but it gives to many extra rewards to really be optional.

Remove the teleport, bonus emblems, luck of the draw buff, ability to bypass lockouts, exc. And its actually optional.

You want a system that will auto group you, sure fine, but everything else removes the concept of optional from it.

[Beèfd-faerlina]

Originally the game kind of forced you to be social. You had to group up. You had to make friends. And Blizzard removed all that over the years. Starting really with the Dungeon Finder in Wrath.

WoW just became a lobby game where you queue up for things, join random strangers, do your thing, and move on. Never see or talk to them again. There’s literally no reason to communicate with anyone outside of Mythics. Other players might as well be bots. I don’t know how anyone calls WoW an mmorpg anymore. They’ve completely forsaken the mmo audience.

And it was sad to see that same warped audience infect Classic. Especially after TBC’s boost, which brought them in even bigger droves. They treat it like Retail. Just look at the forums. I guess that was inevitable. The community makes an mmo, and the community is nothing like it was back in the day. And it’s the devs’ fault for the direction they took this game. But it is what it is and it’s not going to change.

Quoting again because this guy used to have a brain.

[Darkmuth-mankrik]

Sure wish blizzard would have stuck to thier stance of never bringing classic servers back, at this point…

[Tuula-skyfury]

@Maxium-grobbulus

If you don’t like the game, you can just not play it.

Yeah, don’t criticize. Don’t try to improve, just quit.

“Where did everybody go?”

[Myxir-old-blanchy]

@Corruptionn-stormrage

dumb trolls like the op.

Creating a thread about a demand from the community is not trolling.

@Corruptionn-stormrage

how many of them claim the game is dead lol

Nope. The game is far from dead. I see lots of players in many zones that I go.

@Ziryus-pagle

Having options allows people to do a cost benefit decisions of those various options. And the reality is that for just pugging dungeons when all you want to do is get the dungeon done RDF is the obvious winner.

The same could be said about some addons and PvE servers. Should Blizzard makes bans addons which makes tracking DoTs, procs, cooldowns and so on easier? Easier questing like questie? PvE servers? Cuz is far more “convenient” to not worry about being ganked, having more information and so on.