Then what exactly is the point? Why is taking the choice away from players a good thing?
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Having that choice, in some players’ eyes, and it seems to be “enough” players to make Blizz feel that their choice was necessary, believe it hurts the game. Particularly, the social aspects, or the “social fabric” as Blizzard called it.
A lot of people have explained the point already. If you are still not getting it yet, there is no reason to keep on explaining.
Just to back this up - the whole accusation that Zipzo, me, and some others were pushing for #nochanges during the campaign for Dual Spec in TBC was a false rhetorical construct presented repeatedly by Zyrius. He would repeatedly mischaracterise our positions as “you have no reasons, just #nochanges”. In doing this would ignore many actual reasons that were given and ignore detailed write ups rejecting his premise that we were championing #nochanges and why.
But as a true campaigner he knew full well that if you repeat a catchy line often enough people accept it as truth.
Zipzo (who I don’t agree with on this current LFD issue) never argued for no changes, Zipzo argued against that specific change for reasons they detailed well and often.
The whole #nochanges vs #somechanges thing is a useless construct - abused to pigeonhole people out of the argument. There is a tension between trying to stay authentic to the original and trying to make the game fun. That tension has no simple and easy resolution. It is case by case. If anything I think it is an error of judgement on Zipzo’s part to frame this discussion in terms of Zyrius’ flawed and self serving paradigm.
But the fact is #nochanges vs #somechanges is not Zipzos standard. It’s Zyrius’. And I think Zipzo’s reference to it now is to point out the obvious irony in Zyrius’ current predicament.
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Like same faction BGs? You were pretty against that idea when people were tossing it around, and then they happened. We can go on. I’m a little surprised that you’d even be against dungeon finder. You were the one having problems with world PvP and wanting teleports to dungeons, but I guess since you transferred servers, not your problem anymore, right?
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I would make that argument. As that lays at the feet of LFR, not RDF/LFD.
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Call it a months-long desire to throw their flawed argument back in their face in a way that actually is consistent with reality, rather than simply constructed to beat arguments.
Is it snarky as hell given the history? Sure.
Do they deserve it? Absolutely.
I don’t feel the same about keeping RDF out as they did about getting dual spec added in, so imo the similarities to the dual spec conversation begin and end at being able make a mockery of those who participated in the dual spec conversation trying to get it added but are now here trying to prevent RDF from being removed.
The difference is I actually don’t care whether they add it back or not, because I never liked it in the first place.
Almost everyone is playing on mega servers now. The social fabric was already destroyed when most people had to leave behind their old servers, names, characters, ect. When a server has 10s of thousands of players, reputation and accountability are meaningless. No one knows who anyone is outside their guild and circle of friends.
Blizzard is trying to close the barn doors a week after the horses ran away. It’s too little, too late. If they really cared about the social fabric of the game, they wouldn’t have let the servers get to this state. All the damage you’re worried about LFD causing has already happened.
Opposing LFD now is nothing but gatekeeping against those on low population servers, those who play less desirable classes/specs, those who play irregular hours, those who aren’t in a guild or have limited friends to play with, ect.
There is absolutely no reason to limit access to dungeons when they aren’t even the end game content. Let people have LFD so they can do at least some of the content regardless of their situation. The elite players can still have heroic raids to themselves.
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Unfortunately for you guys it looks like Brian may be reversing course, or at least considering it, after his latest tweet.
Please don’t hold me to that, though, I don’t want this to turn into another one-sided “competition” with demands for predictions and complete with a victory thread afterwards 
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Wouldn’t surprise me tbh. It was always up for debate. Blizzard tend to not consult the community at all when they’re determined to do something (or not to).
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Correct, I didn’t see the mass exodus of players start until Cata.
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I did. And the released stats at the time did too. But the population didn’t dip - it changed. Wrath was a demographic shift not a decline. Because at the same time there was also an influx of new players.
Not only was there a design shift in WoW but also a number of new AAA MMO titles releasing. There was a high degree of turnover.
Shame what happened to fel striker. That place didn’t jsut die. It died, rolled itself a furnace and cremated itself. then it vaporized its ashes at the subatomic level level to be truly sure…
The issues with cata were many. LFR was just one of them. Wrath Baby wasn’t just an insult for newbies of the time.
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Zipzo agrees that since battlegrounds and arena existing takes away from world pvp and social interactions even if world pvp’ers don’t use them then they need to be removed from the game despite the vast majority of players wanting them to be kept in since they were in the original release.
See how bad this argument sounds when applied to anything else in the game? Oh yeah, He also wants the Auction house removed because it removes the social interaction of having to use trade chat to buy and sell items forming close social bonds with other players while doing so. Clearly the start of the downfall of social interactions in the game.
Cata was still good until the drought before dragon soul.
Gotta love how Blizz put the AH in specifically because having to meet up in person to trade for a majority of things was bs.
Which is good because they don’t have any.
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Yeah, Cata was pretty ok. I enjoyed parts of it, and I definitely enjoyed rated battlegrounds.
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Blizzard was okay with ‘cubicle crawls’ until they were shamed out of being okay with cubicle crawls.
If Blizzard has to be shamed in to NOT removing LFD from LKClassic, so be it.
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