I think it’s hilarious people use this argument at all, like they do right now because they don’t have AOTC day one? or because their raider io isn’t high enough? the community putting this restrictions isn’t something on the systems, it’s on the people
Funny how NOW people actually care about people being invited to content, guess it suits their purpose now
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L m a o
I can’t catch my breath
Exactly. RPG characters are supposed to have flaws. Being the best at ‘everything’ means there are no flaws.
It was a real issue during Cataclysm and Mists where every class was practically identical in healing, defensive, and offensive CD’s.
It was that homogenization that spurred the development of what WoD was.
Except the split hairs is where the argument matters.
No, you can still make another choice. The only difference is time.
my biggest issue with covenants right now isn’t actually the covenant abilities, its the class abilities. for many classes there are only 1 or 2 class covenant abilities that are at all useful.
take mage for example (Cuz its the one I know best) the only two “real” choices, are kyrian or venthyr, and even then its a question of “do you wanna pve, or pvp” (sorta)
kyran: radiant spark, instant 75% damage spell with a 30% dot, with a 10% stacking buff on each direct damage spell that hits for 4 seconds… this is gonna be the default go-to for any pve content… don’t like the aesthetics, don’t like the weekly activity, etc… well tough cookies, this is the only viable choice.
necrolord: makes your primary nuke cleave onto 2 targets for 20 seconds, and gives 10% extra damage… whooo… such power… so impressed… I mean I guess its okay, might have a place in m+ during fortified weeks, but otherwise just underwhelming.
night fae: shifting power… 6 second channel ability with a 45 second cooldown that does “okay” aoe damage around you and reduces your cooldowns a little. might have a place during teeming weeks, or if you are lvling a mage alt (which means you can pick a covenant right away) but otherwise its pretty trash. even in pvp it just doesn’t do enough damage to push players off of you if they are ganging up.
venthyr: mirrors of torment, for 20 seconds any spell or ability used makes the target take shadow damage and have their casting time and movement speed slowed. has 3 charges. final charge (if triggered) silences and roots them.
this is an obvious pvp ability, and honestly a pretty good one, if you wanna pvp as a mage this is your best option by far, but its going to be practically useless in pve.
now I don’t actually have much of a problem with the venthyr one, in fact I think its a great example of how a class ability could be done right. its focused on one type of gameplay, but is powerful and almost universally useful in that gameplay niche.
the necrolord and night-fae abilities though are just far too situational to be useful. which means both pve AND pvp players are really each stuck with only 1 viable option.
I’m not opposed to the idea of covenants being powerful in their own ways, my issue is that for many (might even venture to say most) classes, at least half the covenant choices are pretty much trash across the board.
now to give an example of a simple way things could be fixed… on the night fae ability, remove the cooldown reduction (its basically useless anyways). increase the cooldown to 2 minutes and give it a rooting effect similar to ring of frost. it would still be sittuational, but you’ve now got a solid utility ability thats viable for both pve and pvp. which would probably make night fae a more attractive choice for people who want to do both (Although likely leaning more towards the pvp side of things)
If choices are supposed to be meaningful, then all our options should be meaningful as well. right now they aren’t. and the covenant abilities are practically a non-issue compared to the bigger problems.
Why was the original post flagged?
I find it funny the trolls coming into this thread after all their terrible arguments that usually have little to no merit attempt to take over new threads about problems with covenants when they pop up hoping to get people on their side. I thought they were the silent majority?
Caring that we don’t get a repeat of the past two failed expansion systems, one of which(Azerite) derailed getting more content and a rushed final patch isn’t vaild apparently. We’re all just number fondlers. 
Except the precedent has been set that we can do that. Talents, specs, gear, azerite, essences, have all been instantly swappable. Now we’re told “no you can’t do that” and it’s not a player positive change.
Do you have proof of that?
Not in this case. If something is enforced then it’s forced. Same thing. Also these are your words not mine. Nobody is forcing anything.
Then it’s not an effective choice.
Covenants share neither of those traits, so try again.
It’s basically spam at this point, this feedback would be better suited to 1 mega-thread.
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It was never meant to be.
Go look at all the developer interviews on how WoD was developing.
If something is enforced, it sets a precedent. It’s gatekeeping.
It’s a very effective choice. Just because you don’t like the time required, does not make it ineffective.
Things get lost in “megathreads”; megathreads also lose room for nuances in issues that deserve discourse of their own.
Well, the constant thread posts kind of making me vindictive and happy that people are mad they aren’t changing their mind, we’ve had 20 post with almost this same post title.
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I really think more people need to reflect on this point here.
Classic was a game in a completely different era. The “difficulty” of the game was just in getting 40 idiots together to actually do the content. As such, the raids were designed accordingly.
More importantly, the internet has evolved since that point. Information is far more widely spread. We will never be in that kind of environment again, and nothing Blizzard does can bring that back.
If anything, it feels like Blizzard is stuck in rose-tinted glasses, missing “the good old days” where balance didn’t really matter because the game was built around just having enough people to do it.
The irony, too, is that this mindset is in Classic right now. The game may have been designed around that concept, but the culture/environment just isn’t the same. This is why Covenant abilities need to not be tied to Covenant choices. Blizzard is fighting a war against a spectre they can’t touch. It doesn’t matter what systems of mechanics Blizzard throws in place, they aren’t going to magically change the internet.
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That seems like kind of an emotional/irrational stance, dont you think?
Just ignore the threads that bother you instead of being vindictive no?
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It’s exactly the same. Everyone warned about the Azerite system too. People like you defended it.
Covenants aren’t ready either. Some abilities even after tweaking them still are useless. Some for whole classes (like Priest).
It’s a bandaid over the broken class wound.
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I never understood players who actively advocate against players…
I’m not digging that up. Post a quote or a link otherwise you have nothing. Also if that turns out to be the case I have no problem admitting I’m wrong. The burden of proof lies with you if you’re going to make this claim.
There will be worse “gatekeeping” if you’re not in the “correct” covenant. It’s just now there’s no option to switch if that player wanted to be accepted.
There doesn’t need to be a time gate at all.
Can’t ignore them when it’s every other post.
You can mute threads.
If I wanted to spend all day doing it I suppose, but at the end of the day, it is kind of fun to see people so mad.
Would you prefer having to swap a Covenant ability in order to get into a group, or would you rather be flat out rejected from the group because you have the “wrong” Covenant?