If you are pro-covenant, read this

Community General Discussion
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Take the time to understand why you are pro-covenant. Is it to spite this supposed “1%”? Or do you actually believe that the system as-is will be healthy for the game and its playerbase? Because if its the former then just get over yourself, but if its the latter then we can have a real discussion.

Parallels have been made to legion legendaries, azerite armor, essences, corruptions, etc. These were all systems that the player base nearly unanimously disliked in alpha/beta releases only to see them released as-is. Of course we all know the history around these systems… They sucked on release, (as was predicted) and were fixed patches later.

At this point we are all on this treadmill for blizzard. We buy the expansion, we pay the sub fee, and then we play the game filled with systems we don’t like. But isn’t that sickening? Isn’t it horrible to think that blizzard KNOWS we will keep playing regardless so they just ignore player feedback and release broken systems? This isn’t the case of blizzard developers making a mistake and then fixing it. They know the systems are bad. They know full well. The amount of feedback and criticisms on these broken systems is immense! Even among content creators the usual divide down the middle doesn’t exist this go around. You’d be hard pressed to find 2+ content creators that all like and praise the system as is, and that is just unprecedented.

Objectively speaking the system doesn’t work. It isn’t even opinion at this point. Even blizzard understands this and continues to hard nerf the abilities and soul binds to the ground. I suppose you could say its admirable they are trying so hard to make this work, but it just won’t. Its like watching a baby playing with a toy that has several shaped spaces and blocks that fit into them. No matter how much that baby may try or how adorable it might be to watch them play, they won’t be able to fit the square block into the circle hole. It just won’t work. The covenant system doesn’t fit into the mold of the game and its playerbase as they are now.

Honestly pulling the entire rip cord isn’t even all that neccessary. All they would have to do is make the abilities a new talent row and remove the 1 week timegate on resetting conduits and 90% of player criticisms go away instantly. The systems will still exist and players will be happy, so everybody wins? Oh wait, no. Blizzard will take that as a loss because their pride won’t allow them to admit a mistake.

Or at least that’s what I thought right up until they reverted some GCD’s recently. Obviously blizzard reads and watches all this criticism coming their way and is capable of making the right fixes when it counts, so the only conclusion left is to assume that they actually don’t see what’s wrong with the current system. They think all the top players, (who understand the game better then they do, apparently) are just blind to the brilliance of this system.

Of course, we all know how its going to go. The memes have predicted it. The system will release broken, and will be fixed in a later patch after an entire tier or 2 has been sullied by it.

We all want shadowlands to be good. We all agree on that. My ultimate desire isn’t even to have the changes I have outlined here to happen, my goal is for the game to be good and fun. If that means they fix the system in the way I think is best, great. If that means blizzard is right and the system is fine as-is, then great!

It just seems that as it is now, Shadowlands goes from a 9/10 expansion to a 6/10, and that shouldn’t be the case.

Edit: LOL MY POST WAS FLAGGED FOR REAL LIFE THREAT. good on the moderators for restoring it.

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I predict a lot of this hidden as this:

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Current iteration is fine. Let choice mean something. I don’t want to have to switch covenants just to get a group/raid. Groups can be formed based on needing certain covenants sure. Same with raids. If your character doesn’t meet the requirements, then fine. It’s like trying to get into a group that needs a Priest, but you’re a Rogue. No different than any other permanent choice.

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are you actually trying to politicize something as covenants?
“pro-covenant, anti-covenant”
you guys are brain washed
covenants are some extra abilities and lore, play whatever you want, at some point it’ll be meta or trash due to nerfs/buffs

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I think it’s funny that you think people aren’t going to get denied for having the incorrect covenant.

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Well, I will admit, I was at first pro-covenant, since these choices seemed to be rooted in aesthetics as well as mechanics, but these players of the Warcraft are quite crafty, and they have managed to look past visuals in terms of advantages and disadvantages when it comes down to number crunching, you see as you said they can see beyond this thin veil of visuals that tether many casual players such as myself to not pushing further and further into more tricky content, but if we consider your sketch of the baby and the sharp objects, I would consider myself to resonant more with the sharp object then that the baby, since after all the extension of physical being into a digital character is more emblematic of what the baby is wielding, in short I am not the baby but the toy and as you stated the toy does not fit, but the baby’s hand that is wielding the toy itself is the cause of this disconnect and we must ask and not be blinded by the question of who here is exactly the baby’s hand. Would you dare argue that the company itself is manipulating us into not fitting nicely into a pre-designed paradigm that sharp objects were never meant for or, maybe if you will consider this, we were not always so sharp, we were designed differently coming from a different era, and the baby’s hand, the wielder of dark and terrible tomorrows if you will, is driving an invisible force unnaturally, into nothingness if you will, and the rip-cord that many wish to be pulled would in fact destroy the very tether that binds the player to their avatar, even though it is a game, the consequences could be disheartening.

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I didn’t play when the other systems were current. I can only speak for myself since I only run the dungeons to follow the story line, I don’t raid and only occasionally due LFR for the story and don’t do M+ so I don’t see them affecting me to much. I’ll choose the covenant that suits a particular character. But I can see the issues it will cause others.

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Not taking a stance is political.

You filthy centrist.

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They definitely will, but only because the community are idiots and think they’re actually godlike players. If its not high level M+ or mythic raiding it wont matter. Someone with the worst possible covenant and talent setup will be able to clear a heroic or a +8 or w/e.

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What does this mean? Does this mean that my spec, azerite traits, essences and corruptions don’t mean anything because I’m not locked into them?

I got news for you chief, and it’s all bad.

What a fantastic analogy.

Lets look at some class representation in raids.

In Mythic Nya’lotha there are 88,896 BM Hunter parses. There are 27,504 SPriest parses and 34,100 Rogue parses.

BM Hunters currently make up more of the raider population than about half the DPS specs in the game. But I’m sure that Blizzard will perfectly balance Covenants.

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Yeah that’s me too, Im a centrist. I lean slightly towards keeping it static but don’t enough to argue either way

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Yeah I get it will affect some people but for people like me who are going to make alts no matter what then it’s not a big deal since from what I read they want you to have alts I guess since I think it’s one covenant per alt. Unless it’s one choice per account but I doubt that.

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Yeah, the choice is the “good” one. For my rogue I would be silly to choose any of the three others. I know, I’m testing them now and uuuggghh: they suck even if you like the aesthetic and rewards.

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Well, what’s healthier for the game?

A system in which Class A is strong in Situation X but weak in Situation Y, and Class B is weak in Situation Y but strong in Situtation Z, and Blizzard creates content designed around having certain advantages and disadvantages depending on your group comp?

Or a system in which everyone demands to have perfectly equal tools in every situation for every form of content, everyone does what the theorycrafters command them to do, and thus they ignore fun talents for more effective talents, thereby leading not only to reduced fun on their own part, but forced homogenization on Blizzard’s part since everyone has to have everything just a click away?

I would argue the former leads to superior game design creativity, while the latter leads to nothing but a mathematics game with required homogenization. The reason I support things like imposed Covenant choice is to attempt to break the community of being enslaved by the theorycrafters, and for everyone to just be able to have fun with what they enjoy.

I’m not saying the system as is doesn’t have problems - given that the Covenants offer such a wide variety of abilities that are obviously better in certain forms of content than others, even on a per spec basis, could certainly lead to frustration. Or something like loving the aesthetics of Venthyr but loving the Night Fae mechanic, that’s a legitimate issue. But I don’t believe for one second that Blizzard should cater to people who willingly deny themselves any form of playstyle choice based on what theorycrafters command them to do.

There may be a “right” way to play the game if maximum dps is the goal, but maximum dps and fun are often mutually exlusive. And given that it’s a recreational game, maybe the community would be better off abandoning the min-max mentality.

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“What’s better? This adorable puppy or kitten? Or this literal flaming bag of poop”.

Ironically, this is exactly what’s going to happen with Covenants. People aren’t going to pick the best ones for an individual scenario, like they do with talents. They’re going to pick whatever is generically best for every situation.

Right now there’s no reason for Warlocks to ever go Kyrian or Night Fae, their abilities are just objectively worse in almost every situation, not just from a tuning, but also from a gameplay perspective.

You don’t need theorycrafters to tell you if a garbage thing is garbage. You’re playing BM and not either SV or MM for a reason after all.

Why are having fun and being good mutually exclusive?

Do you not find it fun to get better gear and be more powerful? Do you not find it more fun to have a strong trinket and do way more damage?

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Lock covenant abilities after a grind, once you unlock them you can swap whenever you want. Make covenant choice cosmetic and RP only. Don’t timegate conduit reset and it’s GG.

Keep pushing your idea blizzard and it’s gonna be an outroar of frustration and hate.

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Like how a demon hunter gets denied because he’s not a mage? Queue for the next group and move on.

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There still will be a right or wrong covenant for some content. It just will be more of a pita to switch if you choose the wrong one.

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you dont wanna change, fine! why stop the rest of us from changing at will?

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abandon min max in an mmo?..youve never played another mmo have you lol

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