… I’d want Anduin to live a nice long life.
They’ve got it easy with him. He doesn’t really want to hurt them and even if they lose they won’t really really lose.
No genocide.
No internment camps.
Any reparations will be entirely reasonable.
Probably won’t even demand they dismantle their military as long as they promise to behave from now on.
Clearly Saurfang knew what he was doing when he decided to spare him. Who would want to put an angry Genn in charge?
An ineffectively leader who has no control of his armies so they randomly attack civilians and leaders against his orders…
As opposed to an enraged daddy who lost his new son and orders his armies to mercilessly crush everything in red… yes.
An ineffective leader who’s more than willing to provide yet another “truce” to a faction that has done everything in it’s power to no longer deserve this privilage, yes.
Imagine if Anduin dies and someone emotionally charged or extremely compotent takes the reins like Genn or Tyrande, the Hordes’ pretty much done for.
Can someone clarify where this idea came from? Anduins orders in that mission at no point prevent Genn and co from attacking the Horde. As far as the Alliance knew at the time the Horde had just done them dirty at the Broken Shore. What they say is that they should only attack if they deemed it nessecary. Which Genn took in the most self serving way possible yes, he followed the letter of the orders and not their spirit, but he didn’t disobey them.
Even in his most angry ranting, Nathanos says he wants to raise the last of Anduin’s subjects, then have him kneel before Sylvanas, so she can rule all. But he doesn’t rant about killing Anduin.
Sylvanas spared him at the Gathering, tried blowing him up at Lordaeron, but ultimately she says she will be fine with Anduin kneeling before her, alive, so long as the peace is won on the Horde’s terms.
Very few of the Horde members mention Anduin, himself, as a bad thing. Especially compared to how the people in the Alliance mention Sylvanas.
He may be an alright, well meaning guy, but he is unable to control his Alliance and their partners. Everyone on Azeroth is in danger of the Alliance if it has no other Faction to keep it in check.
Out of anger of Anduin’s death the leaders of Alliance support Genn? Yeah, I would probably see that happening. But it also likely they would support anyone else besides Genn.
If you are talking about the Vulperan situation, yes there are people who disobey their leaders, even Thrall himself had people disobey him. The point is you cannot control everyone.
An angry Genn makes itself an easier target.
Why should Horde nations conform with playing second best and dependable of the whims of any random Alliance member when they have the chance to play first team and actually defend their territories?
Sylvanas reasoning in A Good War did had a valid point: and that is the fact that most Horde races live under a militant culture and they can hold a grudge for entire generations. The brat will die in some decades and after that what?
For example, Trolls have had serious problems with Elves and Humans for centuries (righteously so, cause those two groups literally invaded the lands of the trolls) and it does not seems this will go away anytime soon.
Depends on who takes over after Anduin:
Anduin himself wants peace, and as has been mentioned he controls the Alliance roughly as well as anyone has ever controlled the Horde. There’s a few outlying incidents, but nothing that threatens the very existence of the Horde. Anduin is the Horde’s best case scenario right now. He’s young and inexperienced at the moment, and would strive to find a path to peace that leaves the least bodies in the dirt.
Genn: Potentially dangerous because he in no way is going to hold back. He wants vengeance. Though Anduin has rubbed off on him a bit, I could easily see him hurling the full brunt of the Alliance at the biggest Horde target he can get and make it an all-out battle royale. This is horrible for both sides, but due to lack of subtlety, a strategist like Sylvanas can find holes in the onslaught to exploit. Bottom line, it’d be a bloody mess, but one the Horde could win with good battle planning.
Tyrande: Worst case scenario. She didnt go Goth Sailor Moon on us for nothing. She is the very instrument of Elune’s vengeance and has 10,000+ years of experience and a smoldering World Tree’s worth of motivation. The War of Thorns was brutal for the Horde… imagine her and Malfurion making every front on every continent like that. (Drools in NE Main…)
Why should we try for peace, and work together for the benefit of all our peoples when Anduin might die in a few decades? It’s not like there’s even the slightest chance that after working together for decades we might just… not want to go to war with each other.
So let’s just attack the Alliance right now and risk destroying the Horde right now by ensuring that even the most peaceful members of the Alliance are convinced they have no choice but to destroy us!
And this really sucks. I’m gonna quote Tewdee from old forum.
I should want to pummel Anduin into the dirt in an Alliance vs Horde war. After all, he’s blue side and I’m red side and that’s how factions work: you hate your enemy.
Except literally everything is painting the Alliance as justified. The Horde has no reason for this war, we’re forced to go along with this war of extermination and Anduin goes around spreading peace and love and wanting co-existence.
There’s no reason why I’d want to pummel Anduin into the dirt, in-character. In-character, everything Anduin aligns more with the dream of Thrall’s Horde than anything the Horde represents at the moment.
Yet out-of-character, I cannot stand him. He’s preachy, the universe praises him and bends over to his needs. The only characters which oppose Anduin are portrayed as sociopathic/evil or it’s laughable, yet we’re supposed to be fighting him and take pride in this?
THIS is the faction pride we’ve been sold? THIS is the “morally gray” conflict?
If we were to repeat a Celestial Experience from MOP, the quest chain where Xuen makes you fight a manifestation of your hatred… would it be Anduin now? It makes no sense.
When Saurfang in the Alliance-side Lordaeron scenario berates Anduin:
Anduin Wrynn says: Stand aside, Saurfang. This war is not yours to bear alone, and there is no honor in killing you.
High Overlord Saurfang says: Your father was a man of honor, boy. You know nothing of the sort.
It’s a joke. Nothing Saurfang says has any merit. Why would old man Saurfang be angry at Anduin? Anduin has done nothing. All materials released from BfA announcement to now has just further justified Anduin has being the grand hero.
And that’s why I hate him more than ever.
I don’t want to kill Anduin because he wronged me, I want to kill Anduin because the universe revolves around him.
Genn ignored his instructions previously to not cause conflict and the response was…not even a slap on the wrist.
I can’t imagine Tyrande saying “okay, we’ll stop fighting because you asked Anduin!” Especially after she told him to go pound sand at the beginning of the current patch.
Nor can I expect the Kul’tirans to cheer peace after Brennandam.
So what leverage, exactly, does Anduin have to ensure peace on his side?
Stormwind’s military and likely Ironforge and Gnomergon’s as well. The others have no say in the end. What are they going to do, leave the Alliance and get stomped by the Horde?
I just can’t see Anduin going to war with the Night Elves and Worgen to defend the Horde and not having mass desertions in their ranks.
Assuming he has some kind of peace treaty with the Horde, he would just have to cut off support and disavow any faction that attacked. None of the Alliance nations are strong enough to fight the Horde on their own so ultimately they would have to fall in line. In the long term this is bad for Anduin and the Alliance, but he does have the power to do this.
The Night Elves were capable of holding off the Horde even when they were hit with a surprise attack, and the Horde only broke through because they were relying on Saurfang’s tactical acumen.
On their own terms? Supported by the Worgen (and likely the Kul’tirans as well as the Void Elves and potentially the Dark Iron). They’d be able to cause a lot of harm. Now add in the Stormwind units that deserted.
Him disavowing the attack would have little, if any, effect, and they have easy access to supplies from their other allies.
Its called the sniper dilemma, OP. Why kill a enemy who does their job so poorly, on the off chance he gets replaced by someone who’s more competent or motivated?
This also why I can’t stand him on my alliance toons. The entire story will bend over backwards to ensure that his opinion is the right one, and any dissident will turned into a smiling sycophant smothered in condescending “rightness” because the Alliance is a perfect 1950’s nuclear FaMiLy. I don’t know how Blizzard expects anyone who’s not a human paladin to feel this “fAcTiOn PrIdE” that this expansion is supposed to be about.
The Night Elves have never been capable of stopping the Horde. They’ve lost the entirety of Ashenvale twice now not to mention being unable to evict the Warsong. Now they’re left with a fraction of their population and they’re somehow supposed to continue fighting the Horde that is no longer focused on Stormwind. They’d be lucky to hold on to any of their territory if they kept fighting alone.
The only nations with any territory are the Night Elves and the Kul Tirans, and only the Kul Tirans have had their population remain mostly unharmed. The Horde on the other hand, has yet to suffer a major defeat like the Night Elves.
Any harm the others did would cost them far more than it costs the Horde. And why would Stormwind have any units desert? They’re being told to go home, not fight their former allies. I can see a few individuals, but on the whole they’re going to listen to Anduin.
What allies? Only the Kul Tiran’s and Night Elves are capable of producing anything in meaningful amounts. Void Elves and the Worgen have no home. The Dark Iron are their best bet for supplies, but those would have to be smuggled to them.
All of the Alliance nations rely on either Stormwind or Ironforge to fight against the Horde. Without them, they would be lucky to hold onto whatever territory they had.
Actually, he got pretty much exactly a slap on the wrist: