Hmmm once again i am feeling a huge huge disconect from WC3 + Classic to Chronicles. In WC3 RoC the Burning Legion and the Scourge washed over the Night Elf lands like an ocean. The ground itself was corrupted, and many people died. So much so that the NEs and their Ancients alone did not hold a candle to Archimonde and his forces. So they had to band together with the Horde and the Alliance to defeat Archimonde alone.
In The Frozen Throne we see the Night Elven lands still suffering from the Legion’s onslaught. There are still many Scourge around threatening enough for the Sentinels. Tyrande almost died when she, Maiev, and Kael got ambushed. Only to be saved when Illidan and the Naga intervened.
Then zap to Classic and the Night Elven lands are still in trouble. Feralas was overrun by Ogres. Stonetalon had Harpy problems along with Grimtotem. Need I remind that the Grimtotem is only one clan of the Tauren. Wintergrasp became neutral and uncontested, I think that’s where the Chimera came from. Ashenvale still had a demon infestation, and a Naga incursion. Speaking of Naga I do believe the Naga basically controlled Aszhara. However worst of all was Felwood, which in the name was still corrupted by the Legion and a “DO NOT GO IN HERE!” zone. There was even a Grove guardian protecting the entrance way.
So I don’t think the Night Elves were cracked up to be. I think it was until recently in Chronicles with the retcons that made them into a well … the ultimate Spartan style army, 300 against 10,000, for a lack of a better term. I could be wrong but I think in classic it was only the Ancients that held the Horde off from conquering, not the Sentinel army.
I never noticed that… It now reads more like they were trying to sell themselves on them doing a “great job” with the portrayal of Night Elves, and patting himself on the back.
That was probably it, and trying to hype the community and what not. It just got so hard to read for me at a certain point. I’m no grammar specialist, that even makes it worse. If I usually don’t mind, what about someone that does? Also made him look more childish from my perspective.
Idk if I buy into that. Medivh got Tyrande, Jaina and Thrall together, true, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that was the only path to victory. It was the Night Elves who came up with the plan to defeat Archimond… the humans and orcs were, in all honestly, necessary cannon fodder to put the plan in place.
I am not sure the Night Elves couldn’t have accomplished that without the orcs and humans, admittedly not without extreme casualties. Perhaps more than what they could recover from.
Not sure how you draw that conclusion. Night Elves don’t really have any more issues than any other race, and they arguable have more holdings and thus more to contend with. WC3, they were a faction all on their own, matching the might of the Alliance and Horde, if not stronger.
People like to make the claim that the night elves are technologically and developmentally stagnant during the Long Vigil, but in that time, they had a nation free of disease, Hunger and poverty…Sure, they lacked the castles and fortresses and major settlments that other races were known for. Their governmental system was Theocratic and tribalist, and they didn’t have the technological or academic advancements of gnomes, Dwarves and Sin’dorei… But to say they were Stagnant when they had created a near utopian society seems… very short sighted and closed minded to me.
Try being the one transcribing that. It took me quite a bit to type that all out. Though, people talking in person isn’t quite the same as writing out answers, so video interviews aren’t actually the easiest way to convey one’s thoughts.
Ah. No. That was over in Lordaeron, in the Eastern Kingdoms. Maiev, Tyrande, and Malfurion were there chasing after Illidan, who was in the area to use the leylines near Dalaran for a spell.
The Night Elves weren’t really being attacked by the Horde in Classic, except for Warsong Gulch and that area. The Ancients weren’t revived until Cataclysm.
It was actually the “world” tour of Kalimdor with the Cataclysm revamp of the old world that really made the Night Elves stand out.
Though it was depressing seeing the sad state the Cataclysm had left the Night Elves in, actually questing from Darkshore to Ashenvale to Stonetalon with a little detour to the Overgrowth Camp then through Desolace to Feralas through Thousand Needles and then back up to Felwood and Winterspring and then eventually, after a small trip to Vashj’ir, making it to Mount Hyjal and the Molten Front and Firelands story after was the best escalation of storylines ever.
It was just nonstop Night Elves taking Kalimdor back, recovering after such devastation and coming out stronger, and was when I became a Night Elf fan, as opposed to just playing a Night Elf since Classic because I wanted to play a Druid and I didn’t want to play a Tauren.
They had to band together or else it was game over. That was entire point of the game. That and each faction had their own heroic journey and what not. The only way we all had won was Malfurion’s plan to work. In order for that to work we all had to work together. Again that was the point from even the intro. “Like fools we’ve clung to our old hatred.” Or something along those lines.
Malfurion’s plan also had to take advantage of Archimonde’s ego. Archimonde himself stated that our defenses were pitiful and he should have launched his invasion centuries ago. Even in the game before the trap was sprung he destroys an entire night elf village with ease. The BL was bad enough alone, Archimonde made it impossible to beat.
As how I claim why Night Elves are not greater than everyone else? Because again WC3 revolved around Kalimdor, that was the Burning Legion’s main target. Night Elves were hit the hardest. Before Cenarius’ fall in WC3 sure they were above everyone else. Second Fel Grom’s axe was put into his head that was the start of “Fall of Rome.”
Night Elves are just like everyone else, put an axe in their head, they’re dead. Each race is different and unique in their advantages. Orcs are good on offense, Night Elves are good on defense. Sure each race can vary on which is greater, but there isn’t a “race above all” by leaps and bounds. What about Taurens who can tear people in half with their bare hands? Does that make them above everyone else? Humans and their hooman potential? Okay low blow I know, I don’t even like the terrible human potential stick.
I also don’t follow the J.R.R. Tolkien fashion where the rule of law is Elves > everyone else.
Ah you’re right there, however wasn’t the first mission Maiev chasing Illidan through Kalimdor. You follow his trail and the ground was blighted, trees were on fire, a lot of corruption. It has been a while and I did forget the boat ride to the Tomb of Sargeras, let alone Lordaeron.
Do Keeper of the Groves count as ancients? There were a few wandering around. Moonglade, Stonetalon, Ashenvale, that’s all I can remember really. Or were ancients just the Ancient of War, Lore, etc.?
Speaking of Ancients if I am not mistaken, but I believe it were mainly Malfurion, and the Ancients holding us back in War of Thorns. They were not holding back, no holds bar style.
Keepers of the Grove? No, they’re just male Dryads.
“Ancients” is a confusing title, because that’s been kind of used for a few different things. The Wild Gods were originally called the Ancients. As are the giant tree people called Ancients. Though, either way, both were not really active again until Cataclysm. They weren’t really attacking the Horde or anyone in Classic.
The Wild Gods are revived on Mount Hyjal. And the tree Ancients are awaken in larger numbers at Darkshore:
and Mount Hyjal:
But, yes, in the War of the Thorns event in game, the tree Ancients did a lot of the heavy lifting. They weren’t mentioned in A Good War or Elegy, though.
Kael teleported right before Arthas delivered a killing blow when they fought in the book series. Kael was also seen teleporting himself and his troops numerous times throughout WC3. He also teleports the entire raid into the air during his boss fight in BC.
Also, Malfurion squandered most of their military trying to evacuate Teldrassil (you know, when he showed up with their fleet.) There is a reason Tyrande demanded aid from the Alliance.
And for the record Grom Hellscream didnt barely hold his own against the nelves, he completely thrashed their forces and killed Cenarius as they watched. How do you get this fanatical about a fictional race?
We also already covered the discussion of Kael’thas and portals:
Lastly, Malfurion wasn’t with the Night Elf fleet. Those were sent down to Silithus on, while Malfurion was still on Teldrassil when the Horde started to march through Ashenvale.
The night elves were losing before and after the orcs drank demon blood that is the whole point of why I made that reference. The warsong outriders are elite horde troops that fought against the regular night elf military and dominated the battle. The point of putting this example was to show that any random civilian population are not going to defeat the warrior elite of any of the major races and that the impact the civilians fighting had was more testimony of the determination of the night elves to defend their homelands despite the odds not a display of battle prowess. Even if the horde didn’t encircle the night Elves the second the wisp wall went down the river that the night elves were holding would have become an unteniable position and they would have been forced to retreat.
Your point is a faulty premise. It doesn’t matter that the Warsong won that fight, as a passed event does not decanonize the future events of Night Elf civilians holding off the Horde from taking their land from after Warcraft III until up to Seige of Orgrimmar, as per Terran Gregory’s description. The two are not mutually exclusive concepts.
Additionally, over all your point is irrelevant to current events, as Tyrande and Malfurion are both now on the front lines, and the situation is entirely different than either the Warsong’s initial incursion into the Night Elf lands where they faced neither, nor the War of the Thorns where they faced Malfurion alone and had taken multiple preparations for, something they have not shown to have prepared for again.
The NEs have a fairly mixed (and downright weird) representation in game, largely stemming from many of their victories … not actually feeling like victories (since they all too often come at extreme cost).
Few PC races have had more racial plot threads tied up, or ever had that many threads to begin with. Staghelm, Xavius, and the Emerald Nightmare all defeated. Cenarius, Aviana, and even Malorne recovered and returned to the material world. Even G’hanir is apparently recovering, and perhaps may even birth another seed for another TRUE World Tree. Finally, Azshara is on the horizon.
Thematically however, outside of their conflict with the Horde (and relations with the Alliance), the NEs are fixated BEHIND them … rather than ahead. Most of their primary conflicts (or struggles) deal with elements (and mistakes) from their past. Fendral Staghelm, Xavius, Azshara, the Emerald Nightmare, the Legion, the Worgen Curse, the Second WoE … all are elements of their history that constantly come back to haunt them (and, at cost, they’ve overcome them … even if execution is poor).
Personally, the one thing I don’t often see (and the thing I want expressed more of) from the NEs is what direction they plan to go moving forward; especially now that (after Legion) their Long Vigil is well and truly over. I cannot comment on how NE fans feel their chosen race has been portrayed (other than their tendency to invalidate arguments showing other PC races, like the Darkspear for example, have been treated FAR worse than the NEs in WoW; and races like the Tauren, Gilneans, Gnomes, and Goblins have FAR worse representation) … but a strong vision forward for their people in this rapidly changing world would be something I’d be interested in seeing.
Gnomes say hi. There’s always someone lower on the totem pole.
Actually, had a Gnome Warrior tank turn to me at the beginning of BfA in a dungeon and say to me, “Hey Night Elf. Welcome to the homeless people club.”
I personally like the idea of the Night elves and Forsaken creating the faction hub cities for next expansion.
It would provide a plot reason to give them back a capital city (and I doubt Blizz would rebuild Darnassus and Undercity without a gameplay reason) and offer plenty of quest opportunities to present the elves’/Forsaken’s motivations for moving forward.
That, and a plot about moving forward is about the only possible way I could personally accept losing Ashenvale/Lordaeron and their historical ties.
I’m all for that, as long as the Forsaken and the Night Elves aren’t still antagonizing each other - I want a restraining order between faction plots in the next expansion - however, I would be unhappy with the Night Elves not holding Ashenvale (as they are in the Mission Tables so far). Forsaken haven’t lost Silverpine, for the point.
To address your actual point, though, I was always fond of these quests from the Burning Crusade expansion, and was sad nothing came of them in Wrath or beyond:
The Darkspear who unequivocally retook the Echo Isles in Cata, while their counterparts, the Gnomes, were allowed to take the surface above Gnomeregan, but practically none of the actual city? Similar to the Bilgewater, who were allowed to make a new home in Azshara, in the same expansion they lost their home in, while Gilneas is still in limbo?
Darkspear were really only shafted in the treatment of Vol’jin. And look at him now, back and shinier than ever.
The Darkspear, who have been beaten by the: Amani (while they were part of the Gurubashi); the Gurubashi (when the Tribe split); the Naga; the Kul Tirans; and the Horde under Garrosh … only to have the warchief spot THEY earned and THEIR ONLY representative completely rendered worthless when Blizz decided to not do anything with him; and kill him off by Trash Mob. They STILL don’t have a racial leader right now. I even saw this amazing thread rightly asking how they aren’t extinct yet.
The Gnomes STILL don’t have Gnomergon back, the Bilgewater are FORCED to follow the harbinger of their destruction because Blizz is too lazy to write them a replacement (and instead soft retcon the events of the Lost Isles to justify why Wix is still in charge). Both tech races are constantly the victim of the needs of the story, with their primary source of relevance (TECH) being taken away for the sake of the plot. For example, why catapults and not rockets at Teldrassil? Aesthetics mostly…
The Gilneans and Tauren have it even worse, being largely irrelevant outside of their occasionally popping up in cinematics Faction leaders. The NEs may have it bad, but lets not kid ourselves … its not AS bad as many NE players would like people to think; and they portray it as FAR worse than it is by constantly invalidating the situations of the other PC races (or just ignoring established lore that occurs before WoW). They are just about the only racial playerbase I see regularly doing that.