Ideal, but fair depictment of Races- Round 1, Night Elves

[Amadis-draka (Amadis)]

@Droité-tanaris

The NEs may have it bad, but lets not kid ourselves … its not as bad as many NE players would like people to think

Yeah, but we already have another whole thread for that:

@Amadis-draka

@Drahliana-earthen-ring

NE players on this forum need to dial down the persecution complex a bit.

However, while I would not use the same tone as you do, I think you’re not entirely wrong on this if Night Elf fans do feel down, because as Kyalin points out, when you actually look at the lore:

@Anyaceltica-llane

the underlying canon is frequently solid

So I am proud to be one of the people around that fits this description when it comes to negative claims on the state of Night Elves around here:

@Anyaceltica-llane

remaining Night Elf fans can be considered as reliable in their ability to dispute these claims.

[Galenorn-wyrmrest-accord (Galenorn)]

The Darkspear, who have been beaten by the: Amani (while they were part of the Gurubashi); the Gurubashi (when the Tribe split); the Naga; the Kul Tirans; and the Horde under Garrosh …

The Night Elves being beaten every other day in their own forests, the one place they should be nigh unbeatable, say hi. As does their constant hobbling to facilitate those losses, such as Goblin shredders getting the drop on the race with built-in stealth, and the constant indifference of their primary deity and lesser gods, compared to the loa.

The NEs may have it bad, but lets not kid ourselves … its not AS bad

Do let me know when a Horde race is the victim of genocide as a plot point to prop up one Alliance character being sad. By the Alliance, no less, so players of said race can fight and struggle through patches of content, knowing they’ll get no justice, vengeance, satisfaction, or resolution, because at the end of the day, the other faction still has to be left kicking around.

[Amadis-draka (Amadis)]

Do let me know when a Horde race is the victim of genocide as a plot point to prop up one Alliance character being sad.

“Old Soldier” (while magnificently animated, directed, acted, everything really, and obviously very poignant and important for the Horde story) and the wait between it and the eventual announcement of Tides of Vengeance was pretty bunk for the Night Elves.

[Droité-tanaris (Droité)]

The Darkspear, who have been beaten by the: Amani (while they were part of the Gurubashi); the Gurubashi (when the Tribe split); the Naga; the Kul Tirans; and the Horde under Garrosh …

The Night Elves being beaten every other day in their own forests, the one place they should be nigh unbeatable, say hi. As does their constant hobbling to facilitate those losses, such as Goblin shredders getting the drop on the race with built-in stealth, and the constant indifference of their primary deity and lesser gods, compared to the loa.

The NEs may have it bad, but lets not kid ourselves … its not AS bad

Do let me know when a Horde race is the victim of genocide as a plot point to prop up one Alliance character being sad. By the Alliance, no less, so players of said race can fight and struggle through patches of content, knowing they’ll get no justice, vengeance, satisfaction, or resolution, because at the end of the day, the other faction still has to be left kicking around.

Look, I’m not here to start an argument, merely pointing out that there are some amongst the NE playerbase that get a little too into their chosen race and lose perspective due to that bias. Things suck all around right now. I’m part of a Faction that Blizz has forced to be the antagonists in a war that we’re constantly told we could never win without the Alliance being handicapped (that reality is ALWAYS present); and part of a race that has been forced to follow the man largely responsible for the near total destruction of their people (and the attempted enslavement of the survivors).

What I hope for, and want, from the NEs is simple. A strong vision of the future in this rapidly changing world, now that the Long Vigil is well and truly over (BfA has made that issue more important to deal with than ever; especially once Azshara is dealt with). I’d also LOVE for them to get a new seed from G’hanir for their home (a TRUE World Tree); and not one that is a testament to NE hubris and arrogance (as much as they are symbols of nature) like Teldrassil and Nordrassil were/are. But … without that strong vision … a new World Tree (one that represents renewal and recovery) only goes so far.

[Galenorn-wyrmrest-accord (Galenorn)]

What I hope for, and want, from the NEs is simple. A strong vision of the future in this rapidly changing world

My only issue with this, is how it’s usually followed up by the sentiment that the Night Elves should give up Kalimdor fOr ThE sAkE oF pRoGrEsS. Night Elves have been on Kalimdor longer than many Horde (and Alliance) races have had centralized, distinct societies. Some aren’t even native to the same planet. Why would the Orcs have a stronger claim to Kalimdor than the race that’s been there since the Orcs were scattered cave-dwellers on another world? History and tradition aside, the Wild Gods live on Kalimdor as well. Where are the calls for the Trolls to abandon Zandalar, and the loa?

I’m all for a strong vision for the future, but right now, they need to firmly establish the present. They’re not even sure there is a future to be had for themselves. They need to secure their holdings, then take a breather to assess their population viability, territory, and other concerns before jumping to something new.

[Droité-tanaris (Droité)]

What I hope for, and want, from the NEs is simple. A strong vision of the future in this rapidly changing world

My only issue with this, is how it’s usually followed up by the sentiment that the Night Elves should give up Kalimdor fOr ThE sAkE oF pRoGrEsS. Night Elves have been on Kalimdor longer than many Horde (and Alliance) races have had centralized, distinct societies. Some aren’t even native to the same planet. Why would the Orcs have a stronger claim to Kalimdor than the race that’s been there since the Orcs were scattered cave-dwellers on another world? History and tradition aside, the Wild Gods live on Kalimdor as well. Where are the calls for the Trolls to abandon Zandalar, and the loa?

I’m all for a strong vision for the future, but right now, they need to firmly establish the present. They’re not even sure there is a future to be had for themselves. They need to secure their holdings, then take a breather to assess their population viability, territory, and other concerns before jumping to something new.

I never said anything about them giving up Kalimdor lol, I said I want them to have a strong vision of the future within this rapidly changing world; and I want them to get a new World Tree that represents “Renewal and Recovery”, rather than Hubris and Arrogance (like Teldrassil and Nordrassil do represent in their own ways). They can do that on Kalimdor, that’s fine.

Also … just to point out … ALL of Azeroth’s land was once Kalimdor. While the Kaldorei didn’t hold all of those territories (largely due to just not caring about the Troll tribes after a while), the Kaldorei Empire spanned across every one of the remaining continents (and absolutely included the 80 percent of the world’s landmass they sent under the waves when the First Well exploded).

Many of those NEs alive today were alive back then, and know that reality. Not saying I want them off CURRENT Kalimdor, but by technicality Northrend, EK, Pandaria, and ALL of those islands were once Kalimdor; and large areas of them were once their territory.

[Mannec-wyrmrest-accord (Mannec)]

I apologize if I insult anyone, and wish not to start any argument as well. However that is my one big gripe with the NE players always downgrading other races in terms of unfair treatment. It is true that NEs have suffered, and I for one truly miss the old NEs as shown with the healthy discussion with Amadis. But in comparison to Trolls, Tauren, and Worgen? It could always be worse.

Worgen lost their homes twice. I really hope Gilneas is reclaimed at the end of this expansion.

Trolls have had to suffer since Classic killing their kin and heroes. It was a really bad time to be playing a troll killing Zul’jin. Imagine killing Jaina instead of having her escape. Even forced to kill Rastakhan now. Only now having focus on Zandalari Trolls have a upside moment.

Tauren are the least relevant race in WoW, only recently we have been given the spotlight with Baine after 14 years of waiting. We are mostly overshadowed by every other race. We are the biggest and strongest race with Baine to be known to be able to tear others in half with his bare hands. Yet always overshadowed by any named Orc warrior, and Varian. We are the side kicks to other races who are considered side kicks, including Night Elves. Also the Earth Mother choosing a Dwarf over us is a bit of a sting.

Gnomes and Goblins were the comedic races so picking them was a little known for that. It is also awesome that they are gaining their much deserved spotlight right now. I wish they both get more, and loved the fighting between Mekkatorque and Gallywix through out the entire patch! Was definately the best and high light of Draz’alor to me. Now if only we can find a replacement for Gallywix, he needs to go imo, that can wait till the Goblin thread, loving these threads.

Night Elves players should let out steam and stress for the punching bag Activision Blizzard turned them into. However when another race gripes about their problems, it should not be totally shut down. Uneless with facts and good reasoning. Also can understand and see why NE players argue to Orcs and Forsaken as Activision Blizzard made them just naturally at each other’s throats.

[Mannec-wyrmrest-accord (Mannec)]

OH ALSO since bringing up Trolls and NEs in a single post I have a question. NEs were always the first race on Azeroth. This was cannon in WC3. That was retconned to make them descendants of Trolls. Does anyone know why was this done? Was it done to make the Trolls feel better after always getting killed in dungeons and raids? Or was there another reason? Did any Dev answer the reason why? I personally don’t like that retcon at all and find it was a huge mistake. Another race shouldn’t have been brought up like that in sacrafice of downgrading another. If needing to satisfy both, would have preferred they both were born at the same time and neither party was right in who came first.

[Galenorn-wyrmrest-accord (Galenorn)]

I never said anything about them giving up Kalimdor

I know. I said ‘usually’, because about 70% of the time, when someone says they want the Night Elves to start looking forward, not back, it’s followed by the sentiment that they should do it somewhere else. Usually Gilneas or the Hinterlands are the ideas tossed around.

Not saying I want them off CURRENT Kalimdor, but by technicality Northrend, EK, Pandaria, and ALL of those islands were once Kalimdor; and large areas of them were once their territory.

I’m aware. And eagerly repeat (complete with the Chronicles map) whenever someone tries to trot out the “All land is Troll land” meme. Before their… steep and sudden population decline, I used to half-jokingly post that the Night Elves should start reaching out, and re-asserting themselves over those formerly purple continents.

[Droité-tanaris (Droité)]

Not saying I want them off CURRENT Kalimdor, but by technicality Northrend, EK, Pandaria, and ALL of those islands were once Kalimdor; and large areas of them were once their territory.

I’m aware. And eagerly repeat (complete with the Chronicles map) whenever someone tries to trot out the “All land is Troll land” meme. Before their… steep a d sudden population decline, I used to half-jokingly post that the Night Elves should start reaching out, and re-asserting themselves over those formerly purple continents.

God damned that would be an interesting storyline lol! I think the only thing that’s going to get in the way of that (with how things are being built up and just how many teasers we’ve gotten for ALL of them) … pretty sure a bunch of tentacled big-boys are going to get a jump on the NEs and take a crack at taking all of THEIR territories back first. C’thun is about the ONLY one who’s not making waves right now (and I’m fairly certain by this point that Azerite is actually HIS blood). “You’re heart will explode” lol!

But, no, totally on board with that sort of storyline for the NEs lol! I’m not saying their vision for the future needs to be some pacifist nonsense, they just need a strong one now with the Vigil done. And with even Azshara on the horizon to be dealt with I’m fascinated with the prospect of seeing what sort of future the Night Elves choose for themselves.

EDIT: As a side note, if I MUST give into the insanely stupid idea that the NEs HAVE to go to EK … I’d give them Northern Hinterlands and ALL of Eastern and Western Plaguelands. They can recover those territories; have access to the Dreamway through Seradane; the Gilneans are their closest Allies; and the Wildhammer are actually pretty reverent to the Natural World for Dwarves. I don’t want it to happen AT ALL, but if Blizz is going to do it … give them a seed of G’hanir AND all of that territory (and hell, if the Bronze Dragonflight would like to throw in those last two Vials of the original Well, that couldn’t hurt).

[Amadis-draka (Amadis)]

ALL of Azeroth’s land was once Kalimdor. While the Kaldorei didn’t hold all of those territories (largely due to just not caring about the Troll tribes after a while), the Kaldorei Empire spanned across every one of the remaining continents (and absolutely included the 80 percent of the world’s landmass they sent under the waves when the First Well exploded).

Many of those NEs alive today were alive back then, and know that reality. Not saying I want them off CURRENT Kalimdor, but by technicality Northrend, EK, Pandaria, and ALL of those islands were once Kalimdor; and large areas of them were once their territory.

After Krasarang Wilds and the Valley of the Four Winds and the Vale of Eternal Blossoms I always wanted the Night Elves to get a second home away from home with the Pandaren and Jinyu of Pandaria welcoming the Night Elves to come settle there, and help restore the Vale of Eternal Blossoms, and, after the last expansion, help undo any lingering damage left by the Legion.

[Syaeles-moon-guard (Syaeles)]

This would be really cool.

[Amadis-draka (Amadis)]

if I MUST give into the insanely stupid idea that the NEs HAVE to go to EK … I’d give them Northern Hinterlands and ALL of Eastern and Western Plaguelands. They can recover those territories

We do have the example of this possibility with Mount Hyjal not having any undeath corruption left on it after the Scourge marched up it with Archimonde.

[Droité-tanaris (Droité)]

if I MUST give into the insanely stupid idea that the NEs HAVE to go to EK … I’d give them Northern Hinterlands and ALL of Eastern and Western Plaguelands. They can recover those territories

We do have the example of this possibility with Mount Hyjal not having any undeath corruption left on it after the Scourge marched up it with Archimonde.

Life and death are opposing forces. They counter eachother, and Life Magic has ALWAYS been shown to be able to cure corruption of undeath FAR more effectively than the Light EVER has (the light being the opposing force of the the Void, not Death). If there was any group of people to take those horrific lands and turn them into verdant, healthy forests … it would be the NEs. They alone can heal the Plaguelands, the Ghostlands, and most of Northern EK better than any other culture in this world.

And again, to top it off, I get the feeling that BEs are going to come down on the side of the NEs at some point during this expansion (its the reason THEY, along with the Tauren, were deliberately kept OUT of the WoT). The BEs (as a culture) do not resent the NEs for their exile, and they still hold quite a bit of reverence for the Natural World. As do the other potential inhabitants of Northern EK (the Gilneans, thanks to the NEs intervention) and the Wildhammer (thanks to their recognition of the Earth Mother).

Not that I WANT the Blue EK thing to happen … but … the idea that between these three communities (and perhaps even the BEs) they could create an immensely cooperative and relatively Nature driven Northern EK … it would be interesting to see in some AU timeline.

[Mannec-wyrmrest-accord (Mannec)]

Truth be told the Tauren should have cleansed those lands. Increase their bromance relationship with the Forsaken and start one with the BEs. Also make the Alliance taking those lands a bit more emotional for the Tauren. Also do the possible angle of “we are taking our lands back … that the Tauren healed … maybe we shouldn’t do this?” Just food for thought.

[Drahliana-earthen-ring (Drahliana)]

The Night Elves being beaten every other day in their own forests , the one place they should be nigh unbeatable, say hi.

Why should they be unbeatable? The orcs are masters at guerilla warfare, they misdirected the bulk of the Night Elf military to Silithus, and they had the advantage of surprise.

They did their level best but they were going up against Saurfang and Sylvannas who had done a hell of a job of stacking the deck against them.

[Amadis-draka (Amadis)]

This was the rest of Galenorn’s post:

The Night Elves being beaten every other day in their own forests, the one place they should be nigh unbeatable, say hi. As does their constant hobbling to facilitate those losses, such as Goblin shredders getting the drop on the race with built-in stealth, and the constant indifference of their primary deity and lesser gods, compared to the loa.

[Drahliana-earthen-ring (Drahliana)]

Life and death are opposing forces. They counter eachother, and Life Magic has ALWAYS been shown to be able to cure corruption of undeath FAR more effectively than the Light EVER has (the light being the opposing force of the the Void, not Death). If there was any group of people to take those horrific lands and turn them into verdant, healthy forests … it would be the NEs. They alone can heal the Plaguelands, the Ghostlands, and most of Northern EK better than any other culture in this world.

The Night Elves don’t really have experience with dealing with Scourge or Blight.

[Syaeles-moon-guard (Syaeles)]

…why does no one remember undercity

The only people who actually care about Undercity are Forsaken fans, such as yourself I’m assuming, and Human Paladins that incapable of being devoted to more than crappy deus vult memes.

No one else gives a toss about Lordaeron and it’s also why Night Elf fans aren’t satisfied with SoL or Dazar’alor being our supposed pay back. We don’t care about some dusty old human city. Nor do we care about taking some shiny boats and one King.

We want vengeance for Teldrassil. Not our losses to be used as excuses for Human fans to attack the Forsaken.

[Droité-tanaris (Droité)]

Life and death are opposing forces. They counter eachother, and Life Magic has ALWAYS been shown to be able to cure corruption of undeath FAR more effectively than the Light EVER has (the light being the opposing force of the the Void, not Death). If there was any group of people to take those horrific lands and turn them into verdant, healthy forests … it would be the NEs. They alone can heal the Plaguelands, the Ghostlands, and most of Northern EK better than any other culture in this world.

The Night Elves don’t really have experience with dealing with Scourge or Blight.

Western Plaguelands has the Cenarian Circle making MASSIVE gains on untainting the blighted lands (FAR faster than the Light Based organizations within that reagion have); and their magic is “LIFE” based, similar to the Red Dragonfire that purified the Blight at the Wrathgate. There were also some territories during the 3rd war where the Legion did use undead against the NEs; and those lands have been completely purified by the looks of it.

The way things seem to work: Light and the Void are two sides of the same coin (they counter and defeat one another). Life and Death are another Coin (being able to overcome one another quite easily, depending on their use). Fel and Arcane (Chaos and Order) are the third coin … hence the reason NEs are likely having so many issues trying to purify Felwood (tainted by Fel as it is). Or … at least that’s my take on the way the magic domains of Warcraft function.