You didn’t say that, but I think you’re arguing a point they didn’t make. They said:
In your vault is the important qualifier. That’s why I think it’s disingenuous to consider crafted gear part of M+ gearing. It’s true that heroic raid and +8 keys provide gilded crests, but that’s a consequence of the crest system, not M+.
I am not contending your position. Loot is not my motivator so I don’t have much of a horse in this race, I just don’t think your argument is entirely fair with regard to mythic loot in general. I could be incorrect.
Dinar system worked fine whenever it’s been around. It’s especially needed when they decide to put in trinkets that are a 10% DPS gain over any other trinket in the game.
As someone who played Hunter in S1 Dragonflight and Mage in S1 TWW, I am sick to death of very rare drops found only on the end bosses of raid that are basically legendaries without the name yet only acquirable via RNG drops. Legendaries at least have bad luck protection. There’s no BLP for Spymaster’s Web or Razageth’s bow.
This is straight up incorrect and likely a misinterpretation. No trinket difference is 10% dps, but a trinket could quite easily be 10% better than another trinket.
For context, a mythic 639 spymaster vs literally no equipped trinket is 10.38%~ And spymasters is quite possibly the strongest caster trinket ever made.
No, Spymaster is just stupid broken and Arcane gets more out of burst trinkets than any other spec. It’s not that Candlestick is bad. It’s the 3rd best on use trinket after Web and Transmitter.
A single item representing 4.5-5% of your total damage is too much.
Fair, I think arcane and spymasters is a pretty unique case then. For me the difference between a 626 quickwick and 626 spymasters would be about 2%.
Despite that, a 606 symaster is still better than anything else at 639. The relative differences are still huge, it’s just that it’s all much less important in the bigger picture.
The bottom line is that a single item having so much influence on the performance of a spec is not ok, unless there is a deterministic way to acquire it. Which is why I am in favour of a Dinar type system in every season as insurance against these kind of poor balancing decisions.
The situation with the hunter bow in S1 DF was even worse.
I think I’d prefer just less obscenely out of line items. I dislike dinars in regular seasons, at least not before the later stages of the season, because I dislike the idea of acquiring items from content that players have not done.
Well there’s no reason it has to work like that. The dinars could drop only from the final boss of the raid, and be limited to 2 or 3 total for the season. Just another form of bad luck protection. Just like the omni-tier tokens they have now.
The thing is, some guilds already have that, because they only have 2-3 casters and they’ve had Spymaster drop every week. Meanwhile I’ve killed Court 6 times and not a single spymaster has dropped on any difficulty.
I’d just have 1 drop on week 3 and one on week 6 or something.
AFAIK that is how they actually worked in Shadowlands, or something like that. S4 Dragonflight was a lot more generous.
The stick on shadowlands / DF style dinars is still the ilvl tracks they came on going to mythic. But yeah I don’t necessarily dislike this coming later on in a season.
Yeah I don’t think that has to be a thing. Just make it whatever level you killed it. You kill the final boss on heroic, you get a heroic dinar that can be used to purchase a hero track item. Maybe they balanced things so well that it didn’t make a big difference. But so far, since the institution of “very rare” items, it’s kind of always been a thing.
My awful guild only killed AOTC last week, but we killed normal in week 1. I could have been using normal Spymaster all this time and still been much better off than still using a delve trinket 8 weeks into the season.
I would say its disingenuous to not as crafted gear with embelishments and tinker slots are way more powerful than the standard slot with an additional 3 ilvls the vault awards.
My point is that it’s not something exclusive to M+. Mythic raiding also offers additional vault slots beyond the boss drops.
What I’m saying is that Mythic raiding, and raiding in general are demonstrably far more rewarding, before any content agnostic rewards like crafted gear and weekly quest rewards are factored in. This regards maximum ilvl specifically.
To try and deny that based on some crafted loot feels like an attempt to avoid admitting that there’s a quantifiable disparity between the overall quality of reward between raiding and M+.
Again, I’m not claiming it’s wrong or right. Perhaps it’s fair because hero track gear is so easy to farm. As I said at the start, I don’t think there’s any value in trying to assert that both content pillars are equally viable sources of mythic loot. I think you’re trying to argue that it’s available so it’s fine. I think the other person is saying that’s it’s M+ doesn’t offer a good enough avenue for myth track gear. Not that it’s impossible to get it in the long term.
Mythic plus suffers the same problems as Delves in regards to when people saying wanting it to drop myth track gear.
It’s one thing to agree to a weekly vault but another entirely for it drop myth track gear at the end of the boss/run.
Delves would need a mage tower style type of run that would be considerably more difficult than it is now at the very least and mythic plus would certainly have to have the drops limited or be at a level that is comparable to getting 20 people together to kill Mythic Ulgrax in 8 mins.