I’d argue a few want the challenge but it’s mostly the WCL obsessives that are upset.
It’s more like gatekeepers do not want to be called out as gatekeepers.
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But there is no reason for them to be. If everyone on WCL is using the buff, then it’s still an even playing field.
That’s a funny thing to say. Wanting to be “better” at something is nothing to be ashamed about. Having a huge inferiority complex is.
I’m not too terribly pro-buff but I think the anti-buff crowd is very worked up about nothing. It’s a mix of different reasons. Some want the challenge of doing it without it but know their whole raid doesn’t agree and they’ll be forced to use it. Some of it is competition with other guilds on their realm for progression and wanting Blizzard to keep the playing field even. Some of it is just pathetic people that can’t handle somebody not “earning” the gear properly.
My subs up at the end of the year so I don’t really care, it’s just silly watching the meltdown.
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ya these gatekeepers should get over it huh
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Absolutely. The gatekeepers should not be ashamed at getting better at gatekeeping.
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This has become 100% abundantly clear. Are people still pretending they don’t want the buff because they want ‘the challenge’? 
Hint: you can just not use the buff.
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Wanting to be better, and trying to prevent others are 2 different things. Go be better, just dont try to prevent others from doing something or becoming better because you are threatened. Thats the problem.
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While I agree, in most cases things are mutually exclusive. I mean, I think it’s a garbage attitude to want others to fail so you can feel awesome. But by more guilds clearing, it makes the guilds not capable to being kicked down the proverbial totem pole, which for some people could suck. I get it. It’s a lose lose. I just know where those in good faith are coming from is all.
And for the record, I’m neither anti or pro buff. It doesn’t impact me in the slighest.
My favorite part of people saying “just turn the buff off” is that they think everyone who is against the buff is the leader of the 24 other people who want the buff on. Real easy to say just turn it off when you are not the raid leader to make those choices.
Oh but you can just find another group you say! Yeah. I can’t wait to see all the pugs that want to turn the buff off. Oh wait that won’t happen. I guess I’ll just find a random guild who won’t turn the buff off… oh wait those guilds are already full or have completed the content.
People take the path of least resistance in most cases. For the few of us who want to progress naturally, we are screwed. If I’m lucky, my guild won’t keep the buff on. If I’m unlucky, I guess I just quit.
In a game that will last until potentially June, it is absolutely asinine that the content is being nerfed two months in already.
So your solution is to just force everyone to play your way? To do what you want?
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So your a troll? Going around forums telling people they act like children, while you don’t even care about the topic?
Always trying to flex your moral superiority, but not rising above.
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Oh I hate on myself and my ideals just as much as everyone else. I’d like to think that I’m an equal opportunity hater.
They are coming from a non-position so its not actually good faith. There is no position that is against the buff that hasnt been 100% absolutely demolished since the buff can be turned off. Want the accomplishment? Turn the buff off. Want to compete with others on WCL, it will still exist and if the people running WCL cares at all they will separate people with the buff active and those that dont.
This buff doesnt impact ANYONE since you can turn it off, there is that option.
Then the raid doesnt have the same mentality and that would mean the person that wants the buff off because they care is in the minority. Its coming. ALSO, the buff was deactivated for everyone in OG wrath when it was turned off. It was based on the lockout, but this time its personal so 1 person cant try to screw over the rest of the raid.
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And that can be demolished by knowing even a little about mmo player mentality, no one will handicap themselves for no loot incentive especially with a large group. Zero people would do mythic raiding without the loot
There is guild pride in clearing within the phase itself. There was a difference in OG Vanilla when you cleared it at patch vs a week later. I was in that boat. We were fighting the roster boss in pre nerf SSC/TK. Killed KT with 23 people. Got Vashj down to 3% with 2 weeks before the nerf. We finally did it, but we wanted it for the accomplishment.
My situation enough is to show you that not everything is gatekeeping. Even if we might be the minority. Now, if you’re going to still dismiss that even my scenario is more for lack of a better term, malicious gatekeeping, than so be it.
People do a lot of things for just achievements and maybe a title even if zero loot is involved.
You don’t need loot to be the carrot.
IMO plenty of people, not the majority I would think, but still a healthy amount will be putting buffless run’s together.
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Actual literal achievements and titles I would count in with loot incentives umbrella, but achievements would be a tiny incentive a huge amount of people would turn off the buff if it dropped even 1 more heroic loot compared to the <5% that will do it as now
Then they do not care about what they are saying they care about. They care about the reward structure.
There would be a lot of people that would do mythic raiding without the loot incentive. Most of the top guilds do it for the accomplishment and most of these people dont care if someone gets the same item as them 4 months later because nerfs or buffs happen.
No one else cares, most people dont even know who the WF guild is for HLK 25m.
Well… if everyone shares the same mentality then you can basically turn back time when the buff wasnt active. If you say no one is going to do that then no one gives a damn about the accomplishment.
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