I wish Alleria would stop talking to me like we're friends

[Chenghen-wyrmrest-accord]

I’ve always felt like “but it’s WARcraft” was a stupid argument in favor of the faction conflict. There’s wars going on other than the ones between the Alliance and Horde.
But it’s especially stupid since there are tons of better arguments like the dozens legitimate but unresolved grievances between the Alliance and Horde that the writers keep trying to sweep under the rug to maintain the kumbaya narrative.
Not to mention all the things that SHOULD be geopolitical landmines that are being stepped on but not going off despite all logic which I elaborated on in the post above yours as Onotay.

[Tannaine-moon-guard]

Still reading through the thread tbh, but you know at least you have an actual argument lol. I don’t mind if they want to bring the two factions together to be more cohesive mind, but there are definitely things that should be resolved during that process, but alas blizz isn’t the best with nuanced stories. I feel like they could be mind, but that would take more time and is harder to just shove cool thing set piece A into than a grounded exploration of the factions, their motives and methods, and their pasts and how to reconcile them in a world that’s more interwoven.

[Chenghen-wyrmrest-accord]

@Tannaine-moon-guard

I don’t mind if they want to bring the two factions together to be more cohesive mind, but there are definitely things that should be resolved during that process

I get the sentiment. Sometimes I watch that little hearthstone short where all the characters Alliance and Horde alike are playing Hearthstone and singing a song about it. and think about how fun it would be if Azeroth could really be like that.

But I have two problems:

1. I don’t believe there’s any way a peaceful resolution could be reached in a satisfying way

2. What I said here:

@Chenghen-wyrmrest-accord

No matter how badly they apparently want us to forget, the faction conflict meant a lot to people and was an important part of the narrative. Many people came to this game FOR that narrative and it’s wildly unfair to pull that rug out from under them. They found a game that appealed to their interests and now it’s being taken away from them because others wanted it to be something else.

We can’t

@Briselody-lightnings-blade

get over the Horde vs Alliance thing

because it’s the reason we’re here in the first place!

[Furos-garrosh]

Blizzard just can’t do without the Wrynns and Windrunners…
It really sucks!

[Shadybolt-thrall]

@Onotay-wyrmrest-accord

Lmao are you kidding me? How many times have we burst into a murloc village and indiscriminately killed everything that moved? How many times have we gone on one of those bombing run quests over civilian settlements and firebombed everyone living there?

I already covered this:

No, our PCs has NEVER been (in-universe) genocidal war crime maniacs. It is slightly different in-game since WoW is a MMO that focuses first and foremost about gameplay and thus’ storytelling doesn’t need to be consistent. We don’t need to consider the moral implications of Plants vs. Zombies and never had to.

If you want to debate every single quest and every single action our characters have taken, please do enlighten me. What are the moral implications of Plants vs Zombies? What is the moral implications of Amberseeds being a main leading cause for indigestion across multiple dimensions? Since we can then also know that there’s multiple characters that showcase extreme levels of biological differences, what implications do you think Mrgrglilgrl and his family and massive moustache has on the murloc race following the discovery of them during legion?

---

No, we don’t need to consider every single action our characters have done in the name of a quest, activity, or otherwise. Because the overwhelming majority of quests in WoW are in-game canon but not in-universe canon. Because the in-universe canon simply focuses on the overarching storylines at which point our characters are nothing other than glorified grunts.

And this is the reason why quests aren’t canon … when they are. It is an hilarious paradox created by the fact that WoW is a game. Gameplay trumps consistent storytelling in other words, so if one wanted a game with consistent storytelling … WoW ain’t that.

@Onotay-wyrmrest-accord

I guess in your worldview it doesn’t count as a war crime if they aren’t a pretty race like Night Elves? I was never sold on the Teldrassil guilt trip because slaughtering entire civilizations’ worth of thinking feeling people is kind of our character’s day job.
Also unlike the earlier examples: There is no possibility of civilian casualties when you blow up Telogrus Rift because the Void Elves aren’t civilians, they’re Horde felons being harbored by the Alliance. They worked with dangerous magic they didn’t understand that was a direct threat to the Sunwell’s integrity yet were still given the mercy of exile then chose to defect and make war on their home.

All of this is you fantasizing about war crimes as it is contingent on this:

@Onotay-wyrmrest-accord

Ceding huge amounts of highly defensible territory to your greatest rival for nothing in return is not “strategic” by anyone’s definition.

In war time yes. At other times, depends on the circumstances. And in every single circumstance such as Bel’ameth, the retaking of Gilneas, and the cleaning up of Lordaeron - all of these are done to strengthen a continued peace. Ya’ know, the thing you keep fantasizing about isn’t happening.

You are a pizza cutter: all edge, and no point.

[Piidina-moon-guard]

i wish people would 10000% but everyone seems to think that it would be impossible for the horde and alliance to get along.

which is always funny as people who often complain about wanting more choice suddenly dont want you to have the choice to be allies with the alliance.

[Yeahsoo-area-52]

Whoa, you actually read quest text and watch cinematics? Just unga bunga keyboard like rest of apes and be happy.

[Aeox-moon-guard]

Some of yall are so touchy.

ITS A VIDEO GAME.

[Kormia-mankrik]

I’m sick of the female characters in general. Game needs some testosterone again.

[Chenghen-wyrmrest-accord]

a ROLEPLAY game to be specific. But Blizzard has been pretty hostile towards that part.

[Trisian-blackwater-raiders]

This is what happens when heroes lose their plot armor. They become Weird.

[Lilsia-kaelthas]

Dude, it is just a game. Don’t take things so seriously.

[Soulebreaker-hyjal]

@Shadybolt-thrall

And in every single circumstance such as Bel’ameth, the retaking of Gilneas

I should have at least gotten these quests from Horde NPCs. But still don’t think my character should have been in either of those areas. The peace felt forced because it had to happen for the plot. And everyone having absolute trust and friendliness felt fake. It felt even more ridiculous for my Belf to be on Telogrus Rift.

[Gunfist-moon-guard]

@Shadybolt-thrall

In war time yes. At other times, depends on the circumstances. And in every single circumstance such as Bel’ameth, the retaking of Gilneas, and the cleaning up of Lordaeron - all of these are done to strengthen a continued peace. Ya’ know, the thing you keep fantasizing about isn’t happening.

I don’t know about the rest, but Gilneas was straight up insutling to people’s intelligence.

You had the Forsaken invade Gilneas with major losses, manage to conquer it, mostly intact, which means it could have been used for a multitude of things, including as a stronghold against enemy invasions in Forsaken lands.

But when Calia becomes Queen of the Forsaken because who are we kidding here? There’s no council except in name. Giving up Gilenas was her command, the rest of the members of the Desolate Council don’t even show up, except for Lilly who, in all honesty seems to have lost her marbles, no exaggeration. She pulls the Foraken out of the city with no attempt to negotiate for anything in exchange for liberating a kingdom they took with high losses whose value is multiplied countless of times now that they can’t even create more forsaken cause that’s too hardcore or something. And nobody questions her. Not even Belmont who busted his bum to take the kingdom. She just hands it back to the Alliance who the Forsaken have been at war with since after Warcraft III, no peace agreement to speak of, just a ceasefire agreement. And nobody questions her. Bow to the new Queen of the Forsaken, Calia of the Alliance.

They really need to fix this insanity.

[Soulebreaker-hyjal]

@Gunfist-moon-guard

But when Calia becomes Queen of the Forsaken because who are we kidding here? There’s no council except in name. Giving up Gilenas was her command

I’m telling you, she was a plant.

[Earthwurm-thunderhorn]

Id love to get back to the horde vs alliance mentality. This whole holding hands thing, in the story line, to take down some ultimate evil is boring. However the whole “your the hero of the story” has pretty much been the storyline of most rpgs since the dawn of time. Even if that means all x million subscribers are the hero of Azeroth in their own story.

[Blindndead-silvermoon]

@Ardmccloud-frostmourne

Blizzard is stuck with it no matter how many curtains they try to hide it behind.

They can easily get rid of Horde vs Alliance, Removed Factions and remove PvP. “Azeroth United” One Faction no subtribes, no more conflict from the races of azeroth. No more Humans Vs Orcs. Oh and best of all no more warcraft

[Blindndead-silvermoon]

@Chenghen-wyrmrest-accord

it’s wildly unfair

Well, welcome to the REAL world, life is not fair and games that are live service are subject to change. Get over it.

[Beefvindaloo-shandris]

Well until the horde learns to behave and stop losing wars we start, we are going have to sit in the corner while the adults take care of actual business.

[Oumura-area-52]

Hehe. This reminds me of the time you go to grab some items from alextraza after the events of legion. And as a dk she is really really happy to see you totally ready to cook you where you stand.