why not hks are the easiest stuff to get even get them being a healer ?
Itâs best to have both a strong team fight and strong off objective players on the same side. I read the room to determine which Iâm going to do.
I was in a EOTS with you a month or so ago on my affliction warlock. Since I knew you were going to win middle with or without me, I went and defended mage tower. Had a couple of fights against a MM hunter.
EOTS can be a bit tricky for a five man premade. You can win mid and then have nowhere to take the flag.
Thats me iâm never in the teamfight cause the teamfight as a melee is pointless
Iâd argue that solo defending a node against multiple attackers requires more skill than topping damage in team fights while being backed up by healers.
3 Likes
how much more?
1 Like
Being attacked by good players isnât easy to deal with with no outside help. Defensive play just requires more skill than offensive play as a general rule. That is not the same thing as saying it doesnât take skill to put out damage, however.
then why do you play dk and retpally then
2 Likes
this is true ive done this many times as a healer or my hunter or dk its a lil challenging and stressful solo spinnin . But if u can pull this off your golden and your team 50% of the time wins
1 Like
All those ideas are to keep the people already here to stick around because of new carrots - how do you (or inemia) propose to actually bring new people in and have them invest time and stay more than a few rounds?
Pretty much every other game has a personal MMR - even for unranked - that ensures relentless blowouts donât happen - Itâs terrible for business and was my whole point. If you want ranked, thatâs fine - it exists too. But, if you want to queue up for 45 minutes and do some PvP, the game should be able to accommodate that in a way that makes you want to actually come back. Right now it doesnât do that even remotely and the player base is drying up faster than lake Mead (with almost zero new blood).
Itâs not just premading - burst is insane, healing is insane, mobility is insane, the skill gap is 10x wider than ever before and things like addons and WAs are upping the calibre of play consistently - but put all that together, PLUS needing to level a char, PLUS gearing that char, learning the maps and other specs and after all that the average player now has aâŚ50-70% chance of being relentlessly camped by the same 50-60 people for weeks straight in organized kill squads largely designed solely for griefing?
Who would ever stick around!?
This is the issue - and if you or anyone else donât see how endless premades are killing the PvP journey for players then I donât know how else to explain it other than get ready for the inevitable âeveryone premades and only 100 people playâ world to show up shortly.
You started off very well with thisâŚ
But, then said this. 
Itâs not the premades, it is the matchmaking and the skill gap you referred to that is leading to poor quality BGs. The only real advantage that a good five man (not talking about q-syncers) brings is that they lower the possibility of a critical mass of fail on their team since they are bringing in five good players. Thatâs it. That is significant, but that is really all it is.
A five man preform is still dependent on the other people on their team. If they get five horrible players on their side and they are up against ten good PUGs, they are likely to struggle to win the match.
2 Likes
I agree with this.
People can sit there and pick apart various factors that affect gameplay outcome, but the biggest single factor is differences in game knowledge.
2 Likes
Far from it.
1 Like
Sorry man this is just absolutely dead wrong. A 2100 pocket threes team can win most maps just on their alone. Just look at the win-rate of dudes like Bri and Joker. Put five of them together and I would imagine their win-rate would be 85-90% all day every day.
I just am floored that anyone would argue that one team pre-forming with skilled players who can pick their specs and use comms wouldnât have an absolute huge advantage. Even if everyone was the exact same skill with the exact same spec set for each team, the premade would win 8/10 maps.
1 Like
But if you stack a team with people with more game knowledge and let them openly communicateâŚWhat am I missing here, weâre saying the same thing
1 Like
i already told you and he already told you . you can go reread them if you like .
No, weâre not.
Youâre acting like premades are all five-stacks of superstars. Theyâre not.
2 Likes
This is way in the weeds here; so to be clear you donât think being in a premade is an advantage? Or you do?
Well, I can argue this because I have been on teams that have beaten these preforms and I have been on the same side as some of these preforms when they have lost and I have a pretty good idea as to why they lost and it wasnât because they were against a stronger premade.
It was a combination of them having more inexperienced players on their side than the other and they couldnât compensate to win. Now, on some maps they are almost always going to do well unless against another strong premade⌠WSG, TP, for example. But EOTS and AB? They canât be everywhere at the same time and five man premades are very reluctant to split up.
This is a five man premade on the other side getting full capped on in EOTS. That didnât happen because they were bad or were up against a stronger premade. That happened because they got placed into a very weak team while our team had some decent players.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/983518327542521939/1144812081955229776/OUCH.jpg
Another way of looking at it. I leave matches before they start sometimes.
I donât leave the match because I see a premade on the other side. I leave the match when I see a premade on the other side and my team has four+ undergeared players including the healers and I donât feel like wasting my time.
So, whatâs the real problem again?
It is an advantage as I said before. Since the premade is bringing in five good players (most importantly, the healers) they have significantly lowered the possibility of having a critical mass of fail on their side. This is very significant on ten man maps and a bit less so on fifteen man maps for obvious reasons.
Letâs assume that there is a 50/50 (feeling generous tonight) chance that a PUG entering a BG is an experienced and geared player as opposed to an inexperienced and undergeared player.
For a ten man map with a good preform the expected number of inexperienced players would be 2.5 (so letâs say two or three). For a full PUG (or a weak premade) on the other side the expected number of inexperienced players would be five.
Inexperienced and undergeared players get removed from the fights very quickly, so with this hypothetical percentage you would end up with what feels like 5v7s or 5v8s. And that leads to GY camping.