This should be the solution. Similar to how Retail is now.
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Let me ask you something. If you plan to run a dungeon do you grab/share all the dungeon quests prior to run? It could be said thatâs min/maxing. Why not grab a quest, run the dungeon, grab another quest run it again etc?
Thereâs a difference between racing-to-the- top/meta/min-maxing and just common sense. Having respect for your free time
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This was similar to what I wanted.
I proposed a gradual roll out of RDF. Let it be for all pre Wrath dungeons to start. Then add Wrath normals in phase two. Finally add Wrath heroics in phase 4.
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If i come off toxic i apologize ⌠although not sure i am. I do agree there is some people who seem to agree from both sides on issues refuse to compromise with a suggestion i saw thrown out in a thread ⌠make it normal dungeons only and iâm 100% on board with it and think it fixes 90+% of the issues. People just hate to compromise itâs one way or the other 100% no change ⌠well can see where thatâs going.
The reasons people want RDF exist for heroic dungeons just as much as normal dungeons.
But yes there are certainly compromises that could be made, take out the teleport, prioritize same realm groups, leave the rewards at quest givers instead of directly from the tool. These let the tool serve itâs core purpose and address the actual complaints.
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I find this interesting, especially when those dungeons were run just fine by the folks playing the Classic versions of Vanilla and TBC.
What is it about WotLK that you think makes people stop being willing to run to the dungeons like they used to do?
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Itâs funny you want to discuss logic and analysis. Blizzard made this decision based on the analysis of the game over the years. RDF didnât fix the underlying issues of smaller servers having abysmal economies and no raiders. It forced Blizzard to make mind numbingly dumb content (See the Cata heroic debacle). In the end Blizzard has made decisions such as linking servers together and even said themselves it was done to âPut people back out in the world.â And why was that? Because people decided to just chill in the AH and AFK in capitals or their garrisons never leaving to do anything.
RDF is a very antiquated bandaid that could be ripped off at any time and it wouldnât impact the game to the degree people such as yourself make it out to be. Mythic plus participation and popularity alone shows this without an RDF system. The true fix was merging AHs and servers so players could find people to run dungeons with, raid with, and have a thriving economy. But you know, âBig Blizzard bad. Mah RDF.â They had the âlogical and analytical dataâ. What do you have?
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Heroics are humdrum baseline. Itâs only achievement runs that are not. Itâs actually a very easy line to draw because players will inherently avoid randomized queue systems for content that is not humdrum, which is why RDF existing wonât have any impact on achievement run groups or raids. In retail LFR would be abandoned if it didnât have modified encounters that are possible to complete with randomized PuGs.
The same thing happens if you look at an ostensibly queue-centric game like Lost Ark. Their version or RDF abruptly falls off in use for raids after Argos P1. The option is still technically there for Argos P2-3, Valtan, Vykas, and I assume for everything that comes after, but people just donât really use it. If baseline heroics werenât humdrum you wouldnât need to enforce analog groups for them because it would naturally be the preference.
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Classic maybe. But I can say that Alliance wasnât running many dungeons in Horde territory during TBC. Iâd even argue it became hard to get a group for RFK as Alliance after the first year of Classic.
The reasons people want RDF exist on mega servers just as much as anywhere, so no just increase population is not a solution.
It isnât a solution by your standards. Blizzard begs to differ. They are merging more and more content for both factions to do together. Theyâve merged servers together for larger populations. The very creators of this game beg to differ with your view and opinions. They are bringing the entire game together as one mega server and itâs proving with every passing patch that merges content, the more success they are having.
Lol, did you play classic? It was the same in classic too. No one ran RDF or SFK or WC or RFC (obviously). Few people ran Ulda or Mara even. Itâs not any different mostly⌠but at least Wrath introduced a solution to most players missing half the 1-60 dungeon content. And to a degree it IS worse now because leveling is so much faster and there are fewer people doing itâŚ
Iâd bet money that they end up introducing RDF at some point in Wrath. The cynic in me could even see that being part of the marketing strategy to revitalize the game at some predictable low-point between content later on.
But in the meantime people will try the game and quit or just generally have a worse time which is bad for everyone, and long-term I think just bad business.
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It isnât a solution because it isnât a solution.
Yes, theyâve all run them when that was current content. How many of those people are running alts? How many will be running alts a year from now? Look, I was here in original wrath. Came back halfway through (shortly before RDF went in).
Getting a dungeon group while leveling was almost fruitless. Whole days wasted trying to get it going. Then you level, quests turn green and you abandon them. I hated that feeling. I have no interest in role playing a town crier or solo questing through the same zones for the 7th time. I donât care if itâs RDF or something else but this is not a player problem, this is a dev problem.
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If you think removing all that you said will do anything to make RDF appealing it just wont be. People just will make their own groups due to the people who are looking to have heroics included because they feel gatekept. You will have major tank issues. People are alot less tolerant these days albeit you may get some heroics but the number going with 0 reason to with a xrealm or same server group ⌠GL with that ⌠we already know itâs as issue now with heroics ⌠not because they are harder but because they really have no need for them when the gear is funneled to them ⌠just like the helaers. What would the fix be for the unresolved issue?
With normal dungeons only nobody tbh cares it teleports you til end game where most of the population is. So make heroics and raids LFG only and normal dungeons can have the rest (albeit rewards maybe removed or changed). The arguement i see is apparently gatekeeping is SO BAD rdf is supposed to help that when it wonât because those people wonât use it for heroics to gear up faster and funnel gear. If thatâs the case rdf solves nothing except put ALOT MORE dps into a queue to complain about no tanks or healers when waiting over a hour for a group. The only way you can try to help it is crazy rewards for tanks/healers that are needed. Remember this is 2022 and use what we see now going on not what was back then.
Sure they would, it would still be vastly better than chat pugging or using the LFG Tool.
You bet, and I did all those dungeons too. I also did them on my alts as I leveled them up. It was fun to run around the world and get the quests, then go to the dungeon and do them. Theyâre a great way to break up whatever else youâre doing.
Not everybody wants to make the run and thatâs fine, but people do. Just build a group and go. You might have to wait a bit but thatâs fine. Thereâs a lot of people playing alts right now. Plus, all dungeons have summoning stones as of WotLK, so if youâre keen on doing them, be the first at the stone to help summon your party 
It wouldnât do any good end-game though. Now leveling to 80 i can see it and gearing to get into heroics. Different times different type of players. I think heroics would be in a hurting predicament moreso then we saw them due to the diff in population. At least it being taken out from heroics and on makes everyone happy except the people that feel gatekept which isnt changing there is no reason for people (tanks healers) to run heroics if they want to raid ⌠they will go with mostly preformed guild groups like they have to put gear where they want it faster. This is what the majority do that are gatekeeping. They charge you for runs because they have no reason to run them. With stripped down changes like you suggested they really have 0 reason to run them and will continute to charge. If that was me i would although im not that person and never have charged but i also donât run them just because ⌠See what i mean? The population is what it is and just leaving the rfd in for just normal dungeons solves almost all the problems except for heroic gatekeeping as you call it which will not change period unless you give them something for their time.
Iâm not saying that itâs impossible to do. But itâs much more difficult to do which means less people are going to do it. Which means the overall gameplay and specifically SOCIAL experience is worse.
And again⌠there are still 2 people listed for DEADMINES on Bene during prepatch⌠Plenty of people are in the 15-25 range but no one is listing because the system is poorly designed. Its DEADMINES, itâs not even about the run. The system just sucks so people arenât grouping⌠and thats a problem.
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RDF does not prevent you from doing so.
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