Jesus christ, man.
Imagine being so upset about content people enjoy that you try to scrounge up statistics on whether or not it’s worth more or less than the content you like.
What is even the value of discussing this, beyond self-aggrandizing? Blizzard has raw statistics on what has engagement and what people pour most of their time into, and they’re going to act on that, not whether or not you think M+ is good or Raiding is penultimate WoW.
I disagree for me m+ kinda saved WoW
Is hard this days to get content for low man on mmorpg
It scales, its feels rewarding , and It has no limit/lockout.
Would be cool to get transmogs like pandaria.
Delves are m+ for solo players and i Hope blizz work on those , dont just forget that It exist after this season. Its something to do for solo/alts/fun…
M+ is only a thing because it’s an easy and cheap loop for Blizzard to add. Most of it is just recycled content slop with the same boring modifiers added to it.
The fact that the playerbase has let this slop slide as a viable ‘end game’ for years, while looking down on any other form of ‘end game’ is one of the biggest reasons WoW is in the current sorry state.
Cheap recycled slop is good for Blizzard, but bad for players.
Delves are nothing like M+. The fact that they invested in this system proves my point even more, that M+ is paying the bills. So many people on these forums treat this system as the savior of the game, when in fact, I think it has driven ton of players out the game.
The recent marketing for TWW just reeks of desperation from Blizzard to get back casual MMO players.
Exactly!!!
My perspective as well. I don’t have the time or energy to raid anymore.
M+ is fun way to play the game in a challenging way without having to make time commitments to other people.
It’s pretty clear that M+ is a good cost-saving measure for Blizzard.
They’re already making the dungeons for leveling, so they just recycle them as M+.
All they had to do was bribe everyone with inflated gear to show upper management how “popular” it was. Which they did.
It’s just a shame they never thought about what dumping a ton of welfare loot onto the game would do to everything else.
Yeah exactly, same for me. I’m a full time student and when school starts up I don’t have time to dedicate myself to raid times or staying up until 1-3 am trying to down a boss. Mythic+ lets me do “higher” content without actually doing higher content in guild groups.
The sad part is that the additional requirement for M+ in order to raid is driving raiders out of the game. Not driving them into M+, driving them away from WoW.
I’ve lost many friends, starting in BfA, because of Blizzard’s tuning raiding around M+, and Blizzard’s refusal to wall off M+ from the rest of the game, like they’ve done with PvP.
People are more than happy to raid 2-3 nights a week. They’re not willing to spend 3-4 nights a week on top of that doing M+, just in order to raid.
Blizzard is killing raiding (and the rest of the game) in order to drive up M+'s “participation” metrics.
This is a genuine question – I’ve never really done raiding in the modern expansions so I don’t know – but why are people forced to do mythics just to raid when before they can just…do the raid? What’s stopping them from keeping within the previous expectations of gearing up for normal raiding, and then using raids to gear up from there? Speed?
It’s almost like they changed the requirements to get said achievements across the expansions. Your entire OP is a failed interpretation of data, it’s hilariously bad.
Starting with Nighthold, Blizzard tunes Mythic on the assumption that everyone walks in the door already max geared from M+.
They didn’t do that for Emerald Nightmare, which was the first raid released alongside M+, at the start of Legion. It simply never occurred to Blizzard that somebody would do both forms of content.
So beginning with Nighthold, they dialed up everything to max. At the time, people commented that even after you had the raid on farm and were getting raid gear… the bosses never got easier.
If you DON’T do M+ before raid… the raid is overtuned.
As long as M+ has no weekly lockout, it cannot co-exist with the rest of the game, which does.
That’s actually really interesting, I wasn’t aware of that. Yeah I agree that’s a horrible issue. It would be interesting if mythic gear had like…an adjustor put on it so when they get into a raid the ilvl and stats shift down to like a baseline for that raid. So as you said, having it relatively separate from raiding.
First mistake
Raider IO > Data for Azeroth.
This post nails it. I’m glad there is a Mythic raider actually telling their story here. I think your experience is very common for many raiders.
There is just too much of the end game character progression tied to this single activity. Blizzard creates all this world content and raid content, only for it to rot, because players will always follow the path of least resistance when it comes to chasing gear.
Majority of the playerbase is pretty bad at the game, so I’m not surprised its not an incredibly popular activity
But it is pretty nice for the people who wanna be able to do more stuff
The worst-hit people are the Heroic raid guilds.
Since they can now get (a) better gear, (b) from easier content (M+), and (c) in unlimited quantities. So half the people in a Heroic guild are pressuring the other half to spam M+, and the guild implodes.
It is a system copied from Diablo 3 it is no wonder it doesn’t fit that well in an MMO.
This has been my experience since Legion.
It fits perfectly fine in an MMO. The challenge is balancing the rewards to match raids so it doesn’t out pace each other. M+ is the most played end-game content in the game and for good reason.
The problem isnt that mplus is in the game. The issue is that in order to raid high end you are FORCED to do it.
They also added to this by reducing the amount of raid drops per boss.
Then they also put BiS items for everyone in both. Like you may have one BiS trinket in Mplus and another in raid because they want everyone whos pushing seriously to do both.
Intentional.
Blizzard puts the best rewards into the worst offending game modes because they don’t stand up on their own. As well as to steer people into buying wow tokens to pay boosters because they’re bad to play. See mythic raiding and pvp mount rewards.
Mythic Raiding is dead content to me because Blizzard insists on mythic id lockouts. They even capped end of dungeon loot to hero track for m+ to try to troll people chasing gear progression to thirst for mythic raiding, even though people don’t play it because it’s intentionally inaccessible.
It’s literally only worth it for people with monetary ulterior motives to play such, and that’s by design.