Pretty dumb move since the stuff on the Shattrath badge vendor was garbage.
Also, what do you mean by “bloated m+ class kits”
Off the top of my head at least 2 were bis items
please, pleaaaase become a game dev. and balance 12 classes + 36 specs for every single type of end game content. no? too hard/impossible? thought so. your view is extremely narrow and short sighted to only benefit your argument.
Brother Nerifina doesn’t actually care about anything anyone says about M+. They just want to complain about it.
M+ has been more popular than raiding for many years now. There are obviously varying levels of participation, but overall it is more popular the raiding. 30%-40% getting an achievement at endgame is a massive number.
In DF S1 nearly half of the player base did M+, participation in the system is growing from expansion to expansion.
2 Likes
Ayup. I’ve played this game for almost 2 decades, and I avoid the gogogogogogo crowd as much as I possibly can
4 Likes
Blizzard balances around raiding.
2 Likes
this. Absolutely this
1 Like
Welfare gear content is always “popular”, arena was “popular” in Burning Crusade when you got a Tier 5 gear piece for losing 10 games.
1 Like
Huh… usually when someone brings up this topic I usually I have to explain that “No, across all versions of WoW roughly 20% of ALL WoW players participate in M+ as their primary activity in-game” but… you did it for me.
Yes, roughly 1-1.5 million players participate in M+ as their main activity. Next up in terms of endgame activities is roughly 15% who state that raiding is their main activity in-game. And of course there’s a lot of overlap between these so…
Let’s say you have somewhere around, 1-2 million players out of a total 5-7 million (during DF) active players who participate in endgame PvE content such as raiding AND M+.
So… yeah. It is a minority of players, but considering the primary playerbase of WoW has always been hyper casual players (folks who level alts, primarily just go for transmogrification, toys, collecting things, never go onto the forums, watch videos, talk in chat, or basically exist outside of themselves playing the game the way they want to) … Yeah the game is supposed to be primarily balanced around PvE, specifically raiding AND M+.
(Edit: and let’s not ignore that a minority of players in this regard is still measured in the millions so the idea of saying it is insignificant is beyond belief silly at best.)
You got that mixed up. What you are describing is the vocal minority of forum users who have made it their personality to hate on M+ (alongside most other positive things for the game).
Just because you dislike it doesn’t make it bad. Not going to engage further than that since you are just going to go “no you” and not listen to any explanation of it.
3 Likes
LOL bro how was it dumb if my Guild was pretty casual back then. By the end of TBC we hadn’t even cleared SSC or TK.
Why are you still playing btw? You hate M+ and you hate the lack of separate faction stories. You just come across as an old man shouting at clouds that the old days were better. It’s funny and sad at the same time.
Stick to Classic.
1 Like
I don’t have a horse in this race, or understand where it’s going, but it’s worth pointing out “achievements” aren’t a great way to judge engagement. A lot of people go out of their way to get achievements, but normally have no interest in participating regularly in the relevant content. Achievements can serve as a sort of “maximum” but the actual engagement rate is probably significantly lower. WoW is pretty casual friendly and has been pushed in that direction for a long time, the vast majority of the playerbase probably sticks to open world content and leveling alts. Blizzard has these numbers and that was probably the incentive for adding things like follower dungeons and delves. So I wouldn’t say they are blind to what’s happening or focusing on “M+” at the detriment of all else. People who don’t participate in “pinnacle content” tend to not be concerned by minor balance changes.
You’re only showing numbers for one stream of content and then declaring that it only appeals to a small segment of the playerbase.
DF KSM S1: 30%
DF KSM S2: 27%
DF KSM S3: 29%
DF AOTC S1: 22%
DF AOTC S2: 23%
DF AOTC S3: 25%
If the participation curve in difficulty levels is similar between Heroic raiding and M+ dungeons, there are probably very similar total numbers of players doing M+ as there are raiding. Both are large groups of players that Blizzard wants to keep happy.
It’s just inaccurate to make this suggestion that raiding is being ruined because Blizzard is pandering to a “small segment of the playerbase” when that segment is probably just as large as the one raiding.
On top of that, if we’re being honest, M+ is kind of a low effort gameplay loop. It’s not like Blizz is going to just stop making dungeons.
4 Likes
M+ is anything but “welfare content”. As someone who does M+ and Mythic Raids I vastly prefer M+.
5 Likes
We get 9 new dungeons per expansion, I’d say they kind of giving up on making new dungeons. They don’t have to make new dungeons now, because people will grind the same ones over and over again for years.
The Diablofication of dungeon content in WoW has been a travesty.
But you wouldn’t do that content anyway.
The 8 dungeons we literally just got are not new?
1 Like
For the only reason there’s ever been to play WoW: the people I play with.
I find it hilarious that you said this in the exact same sentence:
“We get new dungeons each expansion, so they have clearly given up on making new dungeons.”
When someone starts making arguments like these, I would recommend taking a few steps back. Because you are saying things that you yourself argue against within the literal same sentence. It isn’t in a new sentence or at least paragraph, but a direct self-contradiction within the same breath.
No it hasn’t. Folks began running dungeons as an actual activity come Legion. Folks weren’t just going “Welp, that’s me daily done for today - let me brainrot away until tomorrow when I do it again because I want more gold.”
Dungeons have always been a complete throwaway type of content the moment the first raids or PvP gear becomes available. Now folks are actually interested in dungeons, running them as an activity, and pushing oneselves to do and be better at the game.
If that’s not evidence of resounding success, then nothing in WoW has ever been successful.
5 Likes