Yea the rest of the game has changed over time but raiding has stayed the same for the most part. It’s a good formula. I ran the raid this season many times and loved it although I’m not a mythic raider by any means.
But the way gear is acquired as well as how forced mythic+ can be are problematic areas
Too much high time for my taste.
There are two prerequisites to join LFR. Max level character and ilvl. You forgot that OP.
And yet there is still a demand for tanks in LFR queue despite only needing 2 of them
Well aside from Blizzard coming out in the last week or so stating M+ numbers are down, we can also check the RIO and Warcraft logs site, and whilst it is not 100% accurate, when you have 830 CE guilds in TWW S1 compared to 1,950 in DF S1, yeh numbers are down.
Yes, we have time, but how much time? Yes, it also does not include all attempts and wipes, but neither does the data from DF either. Overall, between normal, heroic and mythic we are currently about 30% or so down on DF S1 on how many guilds have cleared. Yes, there is also the argument to be made that people don’t always clear with guilds, but again the same can be said for every season. If guild clears are down this much, failed attempts and pug clears should also be down.
Been here for most of 18+ years, seen all the highs and lows, and it’s been a long time since it’s felt this low before.
And that includes raiding in every season I have been available to raid, only time I have not raided when it was live was in WoD and Cata.
Participation does not mean playing badly, it means if you are standing around being a tree trunk while you go do something else mid raid. You can still have a high participation by pressing the wrong buttons or standing in the wrong spots.
Sure some people will eat the boss frontal and die instantly, but then the question needs to be asked, if someone is dying that fast, are they ready to even go into LFR? Some light reading, not cheesing the iLVL using Warbank gear, learning to press a defensive or a self heal, honestly players need to know at least the very basics of basic game play before they attempt LFR.
If someone is going to roll a new class, get to 80 and instantly queue for LFR for the very first time without actually knowing how their class works, or in many instances trying out healing or tanking without even knowing the most basic things like what a taunt button is, maybe they should spend 10 minutes reading a guide first and then trying to apply what they have read and learn from there.
Sounds like you don’t raid enough, I have alts who are unable to roll for some gear drops because they already have the exact item, or the same item of a higher iLVL, meaning even if I run the raid I am getting nothing from it and thus allowing others a higher chance to win a roll. It has been 19 weeks since S1 and LFRs first wing started.
OP doesn’t go far enough
We should have 1 player raids
Be great to get CE cuz I don’t gotta find 19 other people who can do the mechanics
Taunt swap off themselves? Like here is tank buster one, now you need to press taunt or use a defensive, or die.
There are ways to do things, like with Court or any dual boss that generally requires a target swap, they could have it so one boss whacks the tank, now said tank has a debuff that means every direct spell or attack to said boss will do X damage back to the tank, this forces them to have to change target.
I’d like to see 40man raids again. Or even bigger, no reason in 20 years we have to face the same limitations as in 2004.
Have you seen how bad large BGs are these days? A large portion of the player base cannot even handle more than 20 man raids as it is, and it’s mostly not even a user issue, the game is just horribly optimised.
You can not fundamentally alter the raiding environment for tanks without taking away the literal only “real” mechanic Blizzard throws at tanks…taunt swaps. Whether it is a hard check (do it or die) or a soft check (taunt or eventually you die), that is how Blizzard designs fights for tanks.
Having “5 man raids” with 1 tank means there is no taunt swap meaning you have no other tank mechanic…and tanking raids is already stupid dummy easy. In fact, tanking ANY level of raid deserves absolutely no respect or praise for “skill”.
And Blizzard will NEVER turn raids into actual difficult content like mythic+ where tanks ACTUALLY work.
I do agree that fundamentally raids do need updated to be more mechanically dense and a HUGE part of that is making tanks work harder which generally means less active mitigation uptime and/or more active mitigation type of checks like Cata - WoD had (which never worked well for DKs specifically but could be managed)…but that era was seen as very unfun for tanks (who are inherently bad lazy pieces of feces to begin with quite honestly…and I include myself too) and was all but done away with.
So raiding is, essentially, a lost cause where the generally unskilled go to live out their power fantasies and pretend they’re some skill gamer god because they can follow the distilled instructiosn DBM and especially cheap auras tells them to do along with X number of other people who all manage to login and group together at the same time and learn whatever specific song and dance each raid boss demands of people.
Imagine gatekeeping LFR lmao some of you need to get a life.
I think LFR as it is is good.
Essentially it currently runs on a ‘try your best because it’s gonna get easier even if you fail’.
We have one person in our guild who loves WoW but just can’t physically perform the same. LFR is essentially the perfect content for them and lets them still try their best, have a break between raid tiers and get something to show for it.
They should though.
Half the problem with raiding is as you put it, you just need to do the right song and dance, and if you fail even while pressing the buttons correctly you just go farm more gear and try again.
Imagine not understanding the game and why people don’t like how certain others play LFR, or in most cases of any sort of LFR argument, “Refuse to play LFR but join the queue anyway because it’s perfectly OK to assume that everyone will just carry you”.
Players like you, you really need to take a look at it from everyone’s perspective and not just from the ‘LFR learning players’ point of view.
You sit here and say it’s fine for someone to fail, it’s LFR, they need to learn, tell them how to do the boss.
But do some of you ever stop to think, what of the other 24 players in the raid, is it really OK to assume they will be fine with a tank or healer who is wiping the raid? Is it OK to assume the other 24 players even know enough about the fight that they can teach someone how to do it? Or that they know about the class you are playing that they have the insights to offer advice on how to use your class and spec?
It’s perfectly OK for someone to learn, but it’s also perfectly OK to force someone to join LFR and teach another player? LFR is a learning environment sure, but it’s not a teaching environment, I don’t join LFR to teach people how to play.
Last time I joined LFR on Sarkareth in DF and had a tank straight up admit “This is my first time on this boss and I am new to tanking”, it took about 12 seconds before they were removed from the group (No, I didn’t vote them out).
Players may be OK with someone learning, but they don’t want to join random queues and have to sit around for 5 minutes before each boss and through multiple wipes teaching someone how to play.
Lucky for you, LFR is balanced assuming like five people participate.
That’s why the vote kick option exists. If someone is playing terribly, or not playing at all, it is perfectly within the group’s rights to kick them and get a replacement.
Okay? If that’s what the group wants, the system is working as intended.
None of what you said changes the fact that Blizzard adding weights or deductions to loot rolls is a terrible idea.
Not in the first couple of weeks of an LFR queue being released.
Cool, now tell that to the naysayers who sit here trying to tell us it’s OK for players to join with zero intention of playing because “tHeyA Re LeaRNInG”.
I know it’s working as intended, but too many people sit here telling us there is nothing wrong with someone joining who doesn’t even know what a taunt button is, and far too many people in general who always come here like “Nah game is fine, don’t change anything”, and for obvious reasons, high chance they are the ones who show up to be carried and don’t want their free ride to be removed.
Welcome to random queue. You want to ensure the players you’re playing with know what they’re doing? Run with a guild or a custom group. Being elitist about LFR is one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen on this forum.
Everyone does. Say it with me: the emperor has no clothes.
40 player semi-worked in vanilla because of how bad/incomplete class design was, and most bosses had fewer mechanics than normal dungeon trash mobs.
And on the flip side I can also say, if you want someone to teach you how to play go join a guild or find a community whose whole premise is to teach people how to play, stop relying on randoms to do it.