I Repeat, Please Change Balance's Core Eclipse System

Classes Druid
1

Dear Blizz,

The first wave of changes for War Within are out. Thanks for putting in effort to improve the spec.

However, the core rotation of the eclipse system still feels bad even with the sped up wraths and starfires given by the tier-set made talent (Dreamstate/Nature’s Grace).

I cannot re-iterate enough (though I will keep posting about it) that although some of the changes you made to the talent tree are good, the core rotation of the eclipse system just isn’t fun gameplay, at least not as fun as it could/should be, particularly the method of entering it.

I think the solution can be quite simple without changing much (because you seem to want to keep this iteration of eclipse for some reason):

Allow us to cast 2 wraths to enter solar and 2 starfires to enter lunar. DONE.

This maintains ‘balance’ in the way that we still have to decide what type of encounter it is and what’s needed, especially while encounters are shifting, we have to make the decision as we fall out of it whether to reactivate the same eclipse or ‘shift’ (pun intended) our eclipse/focus to the other (ST vs. AOE).

Example AOE scenario: In a big pull in M+, we would dot and then starfire like we should to enter the needed eclipse: lunar… Then we continue doing so while weaving in the starfalls, mushrooms (hopefully bc of the dmg boost and on a side note, you should make mushrooms become lunar mushrooms when used in lunar eclipse), and Fury of Elune or moons. As weaker mobs start dying, we fall out of lunar eclipse and decide to focus on the remaining priority target, so we wrath twice (maybe even a bit early to ensure we get into it properly). Then we proceed with all the solar eclipse elements.

We would still be alternating but with less penalty and with more overarching strategy than just spastic (sometimes accidental) pressing of wrath and starfire. It would also allow us to focus more on the ‘in eclipse’ elements.

Example Single Target Scenario Issue to Further Prove the Point: I want to hit wrath when I’m not weaving other abilities in based on the old and new talents (some of which are very nice for that like Stellar Amplification). However, I don’t have a thousand addons and don’t want them (to track buffs, AP, and time left on eclipse), so sometimes, I miss that I’m about to fall out of eclipse, and keep spamming wrath because I’m still on a single target fight, and whoops, I end up in lunar eclipse on single target, which feels bad and counteracts other talents like Umbral Embrace, Umbral Intensity, Umbral Inspiration, etc.

Now, one could argue ‘git gud’, but also I should want and be able to keep casting what’s relevant in the single target encounter without stopping and waiting (bc maybe starfire is too long of a cast to finish before I fall out of lunar eclipse… feels bad).

Ultimately, if you ask me, I would lean into other synergies you have already started to provide in the reworks and possibly bring back empowerments from BFA (iterated upon based on the new/existing talents) or provide us ‘balance’ mechanics and the waxing and waning of nature/arcane fantasy in a different way. There are endless discussions on the forums about it from some very inspired and committed to Balance folks. Please consider them.

12 Likes
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No thank you

It should feel bad when you make a mistake. They try to alleviate that by requiring 2 casts. Gives you a window to correct it.

Turning the class into strictly Wrath and Starsurge spam is not the correct answer

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Bad take is bad.

Love the OP’s take. Wrath should be solar, starfire should be lunar.

Hate the new Eclipse. I’d even rather go back to being forced to rotate through eclipses.

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Can you offer up something better or do you genuinely think the current iteration is fun and engaging play?

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We’re in the place we are because Blizzard has refused to expand the balance kit with new spells because that would take new animations and vfx, something they absolutely refuse to do after Legion.

We have 2 fillers, 2 dots that are more or less the same, and a spender for each scenario.

Legion had expanded that with baseline new moon, and then they pruned it and made it an optional capstone.

By introducing this eclipse system, now one of our fillers is cut out of the rotation depending on target count.

It’s a really boring gameplay loop and it no longer follows the concept of balancing the nature and arcane aspects.

Another problem is Wild Mushroom will continue to be garbage until they make it do astral instead of just nature damage. This is a spell that is supposed to address our burst aoe problems, yet it does not benefit from the eclipse we use for aoe scenarios.

Then there’s Solar Beam being a garbage interrupt. 1 min cd, tiny radius, and on top it actually doesn’t silence in PvE, it just interrupts.

They removed the 15% DR from moonkon and shadow form for druid and priest, and for what?

They gave better versions to mage and warlock and then forced druids to waste time going into bear form and sitting on their thumbs doing zero damage just to survive.

Because our healing spells heal for nothing. Regrowth heals for 9% of our hp and rejuv even less despite being a heal over time spell that pops us out of moonkin form, often being a net loss in damage intake vs. Health healed due to the lost armor to cast rejuv.

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Absolutely and I agree with all points, especially solar beam, bear/moonkin form issues, and mushrooms.

The biggest issue like you mentioned and many in the various posts on the forums have: everyone else has everything we have but better while we need to ramp all damage and are almost limited by our forms (that are supposed to make us uniquely versatile). Everyone can self heal, become tanky, and close gaps insanely quickly better than us. We were never the best cc’ers but we def have not gained anything there either. (Cyclone is great but you can’t continue like fear and stuns that others can chain.)

We have hard hitting spells, sure, but if we can complete our ramp which in M+, stuff dies quickly bc most of us are not doing latter 20s keys. In PvP, we get trained and interrupted hard so that we can’t ramp while others get interrupt immunities and strong dispel protections. We only sometimes shine in BGs where they don’t notice us.

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I’ve said it many times, but Heart of the Wild should be replaced with the Master Shapeshifter pvp talent. Shapeshifting as a mechanic for druids is more a handicap than a boon.

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Exactly. I was saying the fluid shapeshifter talent they introduced isn’t goin far enough.

It needs to be extended to more abilities where you automatically shift for everything baseline (like Diablo 4 shifting). Then bake in heart, elder druid oath, and master shapeshifter here and there to make us feel strong shifting into other forms and weaving. Like fistweaving feels strong for monks. Or how paladins and priests giga heal their team. And how locks and warriors feel like tanks while doing their full damage. (PvP more so on those last two)

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Yup, it used to be some extra versatility druids brought, but now it’s a limiter on our abilities and the choice we have in our class tree.

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Overall I like what you e proposed op! Like how someone else said though I can see why people wouldn’t want to be spamming wrath or starfire but I too think that’s better than having to correct yourself because of your casts. The micromanaging of the duration can indeed be annoying.

Never considered this but it swapping to astral would be nice indeed!

As a moonkinless balance Druid I currently like that style of play. Oc I recognize that every else who’s mainly and only mindset is on dmg probably does not lol.

Mmm, a thought but I don’t think I would like this. I currently enjoy having HotW as an option from the class tree. With how I play it would be a locked-in pvp talent for me. I want more flexibility (in every way);not less, personally.

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At the end of the day, Blizzards primary rotation gameplay they want Balance Druid to do is to have a reason to cast both Wrath and Starfire in both ST and AoE situations. That’s what it’s been ever since Eclipses first came out in Wrath, when the pendulum thingy was going on in WoD (I’m not familiar with how classes played in MoP and WoD so could be inaccurate) and when they switched to Empowerments in Legion / BfA.

Making Eclipses this other way Balance would essentially become a two button spec where you spam Wrath/Starfire until you can Starsurge/Starfall. In AoE specifically you wouldn’t even be re-applying DoTs, and our only extra button would be something like Fury of Elune, Trees, or Full Moon depending on which spec and hero talents you pick.

So I don’t agree with swapping how Eclipses work to this way. The current implementation adds cadence to the rotation and prevents it from being stale.

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Can definitely agree to disagree.

I would love just a better better redesigned version and empowerments weren’t nearly as bad.

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Empowerments with Pulsar and Streaking Stars was so much fun. I still miss it every time I play balance :confused:

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You not understanding the eclipse system doesn’t make it a bad take lol

I preferred SL’s version as it had actually made sense and was smoother entering/exiting Eclipses, but I enjoy it.

We’ve gotten new spells and abilities and the likes since Legion. We’re where we are because the playerbase cannot handle more then 4-5 button rotations as a collective.

Player base request that Blizzard listened to. Blame your fellow Boomkins

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Oh, forgot about streaking stars. That was good damage and fun to play around. It also helped do damage on the move by just alternating your dots to keep procing them.

Could also be interesting gameplay to have reintroduced.

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My all time favorite eclipse mechanic was the BFA empowerments. It gave the rotation a nice fluidity and the goal was clear: don’t waste empowerments. You also didn’t have this tedious ramp.

The current system isn’t fun, neither was the previous umpteen eclipse systems.

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No version of Eclipse has ever been fun. It feels like Blizzard keeps trying to force it, and just like when you force a fart, it’s most likely going to be… solidly bad. I also loved the BFA Empowerments.

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I’ve mained Boomkin in PvP (and PvE) since Cata, and the BfA Empowerment system was also my favorite iteration of the spec, due to its simplicity and reliability. I also loved how every ability felt like it had its own weight, however this memory is probably ‘tainted’ by the fact it was the beginning of an xpak. In general, I hold that all class un-prunings’ were done rather sloppily, imbalanced and only deteriorated the sense of agency and uniqueness that each spec had. We should at least have a PvP talent to ease the access to the Eclipse system, if not a choice node in the core talent tree (or, Hero talent!). I think the DF S3 2pc-tier set bonus was a good start and I’m glad it’s becoming a Balance talent (just as I recommended!), and I also see there’s an Elune’s Hero Talent that cancels Solar Eclipse – for which I’d love to be able to choose the opposite.

2 Likes
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Was it the forced alternation? Or something else that made sense and was smoother?

Me too!

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Yeah this one. It prevented:

As the spell you were spamming is what was needed to transition into the next eclipse

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