If a single damage and utility feature were all it took to make the basis of a spec, Steady Shot could as easily have been the “basis” of MM.
If a single talent row were all it took to make the basis of a spec, temporary unit summoning would have been the “basis” of BM.
Traps and Bombs were neither the “basis of” nor “plan for” Legion MSV. Bombs (a mere two talents, one almost never taken), especially, were merely included therein, alongside a greater number of Hunter Tradition-related available passives (WotMN, WP, SH, ToE), Beast-related and talents (Animal Instincts, Aspect of the Beast, A Murder of Crows, Spitting Cobra), and still more that were likewise eclectic tools and techniques (Throwing Axes, Serpent Sting, Ranger’s Net, Camouflage, Mortal Wounds, etc.).
Aye. Tfw when those who won’t even touch a given class use its name as a blanket term for “has melee attacks” as if that somehow homogenized playstyles any more than having ranged attacks does.
Survival plays nothing like Arms, Fury, or Prot.
Nor does it play any more like any other spec than MM or BM do.
why do you think people would take what you’re saying seriously when you don’t even know what you’re arguing about lol. Of course it still uses bombs, this is very readily apparent if you even have a surface level understanding of SV.
It’s the very classic song and dance “I’m going to say mSV is a mess and has no identity but I don’t even care to look at what it does now or think about things for more than 2 seconds.”
So, Traps and Bombs… That poster was right after all… I swear, its like pulling teeth…
Was I laughing when I asked ? And, what argument? It was a QUESTION. Perhaps you should advance everyone the courtesy of taking them seriously. Not only would it be polite, you’d also avoid at least SOME stupid mistakes. You’re not really interested in being polite though, are you?
I played Melee Survival during BfA, long enough to get a feel for it. It was well put together, it flowed, ability into ability,working together, balanced and smooth. It was fun.It played much better than what was left of MM. But it wasn’t for me, because it wasn’t RANGED. It had to be played hands on, like a Warrior would, or any other melee, the major difference being I had my pet. It required I fight things and kill them. Not how I want to play Hunter. The way I play, my pet and me split the job, my pet fights things while I kill them.
Calling Melee Surv. “Warrior with a pet” was a stupid mistake on my part. Its a Melee spec with a pet, like the other Melee with pets.
Do you like to cherry-pick your way through an argument, attempting to obfuscate and misdirect? I’m asking cause you might be gifted.
no? I just question people’s misinformation because it’s ridiculous to complain about the identity of a spec when you don’t know what you’re talking about lol
no, that poster was not right, because SV is not focused on traps. is frost mage a polymorph focused specialization? is marksmanship a wind magic specilization?
The specc (SV) isnt based on traps anymore, the current description reads “An adaptative ranger who favors using explosives, animal venom, and coordinated attacks with their bonded beast”
If we go as back to Cata (that was when you started see the specialization before putting points in the talent tree), Survival reads as follow “A rugged tracker who favors using animal venom, explosives and traps as deadly weapons.”.
As we can see, the descriptions, while similar in some points, are quite different in others.
If i dont recall bad, the current description is exactly the same used on since Legion Expansion, and SV in Cata was Ranged so its logical that the specc was based on different things
He’s a huge fan of the current SV so that’s about the best defense you’ll get. It’s been answered and explained, but if he accepts that then he’d go back into defending current SV which is trash.
This whole thing started because I dared to suggest a change. And he almost immediately stopped talking about that. At least they can misdirect like a true Hunter!
If you want people to take a suggestion seriously, don’t start with an indefensible warrant.
For instance, if you begin a suggestion for how science should be taught more intuitively with the your belief that the earth is flat, yes, people will tune out and note the incredulity first even if they’d agree that the subjects can be taught better.
It’s like those saying MM needs to be changed “because it’s a completely immobile turret class” despite its spending between two-thirds and five-sixths of its time completely mobile depending on build. Those who would otherwise agree with them about certain changes being good aren’t then able to take them seriously.
“We need change!! < Insert blatant factual inaccuracies >!”
…is less a suggestion than just inarguable and unactionable venting.
You’ve written a lot of words to address something I’ve already explained. At this point you’re the one beating your head into the wall over it.
That said, the spec needs to be changed and it does lack an actual identity. Even explained why. I then posted how I thought it could be fixed. Only one venting here is you.
It has just as much as identity as any other spec in the game?
That’s not what happened and you know it. Nice “misdirection”.
You said the current fantasy is XYZ. I said no you’re wrong. Then you said “well no I said this, but I meant this other thing.”
quoting it again for posterity. traps are not the biggest theme. nothing about SV is trap related. you are wrong, and you got butthurt that someone called you out.
I also explicitly said why a melee / ranged “Actual hybrid” wouldn’t work in the game and you started crying that I was “mad”
I think you spend more time on the forums than in-game and it shows little dude.
Spec lacks identity and is trash. My first post was my suggesting a change and why I dislike the spec and you’ve been in your feels over it ever since.
“quoting it again for posterity” - Do we need my explanation and the several others who have explained it reposted as well? All you did was argue and keep repeating yourself. Seriously, sorry your favorite spec is trash.
I mean, I explained exactly how it would work and the benefits and you shifted to crying about traps. Feel free to repost the entire conversation since forum lurking is more your thing.
I mean I’m repeating the same thing I, and others, have all said to you and days later here you are repeating yourself.
Right, you’re totally not upset and you didn’t spend your time griping about something minor related to what I was talking about. But if it will make you feel better there were at least 3 others here that you also spent time arguing with. Feel free to post all of their responses for ‘posterity’ and not because you’re obsessive and weird.
Either way… I feel the spec lacks an identity, I’ve explained why and I’ve offered my own suggestion that admittedly would never happen. By all means keep being mad.
it’s just hard to take someone seriously when they complain about a spec’s identity if they have no idea what the spec even does in the game. surely you can see how that would mean people would question your takes?
it’s just like if I said “marksmanship has a trash spec fantasy and it makes no sense. why are they all about traps and wailing arrow?”
Honestly, traps being removed from Survival’s theme after Legion isn’t a selling point since the stated theme for the class isn’t much different from Legion outside of that(which another person pointed out in the thread). And part of the idea of fighting as one with your pet really does feel more like it’s something from BM.
Mechanically speaking, damage wise, I’m not really addressing any of that just to be clear.
Personally? It should be using traps as part of it’s dps, but the idea of that is stupid being in Melee. So is lobbing an explosive while you’re standing next to the target. But thematically it should be using explosives. I don’t think the idea behind Survival is coherent and I don’t think it makes sense.
There is merit to being able to sustain damage as a Melee DPS outside of Melee range as many mechanics punish Melee, especially in raids. It would never happen, but it allows Survival to do what it really should be doing imo. And that’s using traps, explosives and any other trick/tool to set up the kill and survive.
a lot of people don’t quite agree—traps can be obnoxious to use at best (getting hung up on geometrics in the air) or don’t affect targets at worse (eye of sepulcher) for little to no benefit
can I ask how this is stupid but a warrior using bladestorm next to allies isn’t stupid or a warlock casting rain of fire on their allies isn’t stupid?
sure, there is merit, but in a game like wow where ranged dps can do full dps in melee range, there isn’t a real benefit for melee to be a hybrid that switches back and forth, at that point why not just make them ranged?
there is something to consider about the melee with extended range in the game right now (sv, feral, ret, enhancement, all 3 rogues)
I mean agree or not, traps are a core of being a Hunter. It should be more so for Survival. As Hunters we already have to use traps and it shouldn’t be that hard to lay traps down, or relegate it as part of AoE - Explosive Shot for ST, Explosive Trap for AoE. Add additional effects to your oil and freezing, etc. There are ways to make this work.
Do you see the difference? You’re saying ‘it’s stupid because bladestorm would hit your friends’… I’m saying it’s stupid because the very idea of it should blow off part of the Hunter. We’re not tanks and are known to be a bit squishy all things considered when we get hit. That’s what is dumb about it.
We already explained the advantage and what you’re complaining about isn’t taking away from that. Originally you mentioned how there are mechanics that go out based on being Melee or Ranged. And if stacking ranged was always possible, Melee would never really get invited. You need both, but Melee that can keep up their damage outside of Melee range is still just as valuable.
right, i’m questioning why the only realism concern in the game is placed onto wildfire bomb and not every other aoe ability in the game. not to mention wfb is a conal explosion and not a radial explosion
if its a concern that WFB will “blow parts of you off” then its just as valid of a concern to say the mage casting blizzard on top of me will freeze me to death. or the rogue throwing a toxic bomb on their feet will hurt themselves
right, that’s why survival has Lunge or rogues have acrobatic strikes
A Warrior Bladestorming doesn’t hurt the Warrior. Neither does the Warlock Hellfiring an Area. But objectively speaking a Hunter standing next to their bomb would get exploded and die. We all know it’s a little out of place that everyone can stand and not take friendly fire, but we accept that as part of gameplay. But this and that are not the same.
Ok so then there would be a benefit to hybrid as it has 100% uptime as Melee DPS. So… Was there another thing you had against it?
Not how I want to play Hunter. The way I play, my pet and me split the job, my pet fights things while I kill them.