I miss the old, very limited, talent trees

The point is, when they were baseline, there was no need to have it impact anything, you could then spend the talents choosing between other things that are situational to an encounter, and simply not using the baseline bind you have anyways.

Meaning the second the fight is over you don’t have to respec, again, for no reason, just to get part of what used to be the core of your class back.

We have plenty of stuff now that still doesn’t need to be used, like Slam for a lot of Arms builds, many will never need to press at all, yet Warriors kept their baseline Interrupt for reasons and also have Shield Slam still as a baseline…

Hunters lost theirs, they also lost Multishot from baseline to a talent choice, for… reasons when they could have been other talents, in a more compact version of the trees, and just - a button you don’t need to press in some encounters, like it always was.

Like on a Hunter I can lose Concussive shot now, and Counter Shot, yet Counter shot is a 1 way path to 10% more Aimed Shot damage, so moving it isn’t going to really “gain” anything, if anything, you break even, or maybe gain/lose a whole whopping 1%.

We went through a phase of “too much bloat” and now we have talent tree’s so bloated out that are like… 50x2 “choices”, making them so overwhelming for little to no reason other that “we can” putting us all back at square one anyways.

Going to Icyveins or Wowhead, copying a talent loadout string and calling it a day, because no one wants to sit there reading 100~ different vaguely worded talents, just to get their class back to how it was before all of this.

And like I said, keep the situational stuff if you want, Keep the new choices and keep some of it, but there’s simply too much, and most of it? is defacto.

That’s exactly what exists right now, which you don’t seem to be grasping. You can choose your talents between things that are situational based on what you are doing.

I grasp it just fine, however what you

is it’s all too much, for little to no actual gain other than a few very niche situations, or 2-3 specific encounters.

Just to make it look bigger and give you more illusion of choice.

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Okay, if it makes you happier.

You’re the one seemingly mad that I expressed an opinion

I’m not telling Blizzard to change it or I’m going to unsub.

I just personally feel most of it is fluff to make you feel like out of 100 choices, if 90% of Frost mages all take the same things, every single time…

What was the point?.

So that you can get 0.5% more DPS for 1 mythic raid encounter?.

Totally worth it…

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The point was opening up much more choices for folks to make. If you don’t choose to take advantage of that, you’re welcome to, but it does pretty good at what it aims to do.

Because there are specs in which this simply isn’t the behavior. I have used nearly every talent in my spec tree in a raid this expansion. Yes, some of those swaps may have been a fairly negligible performance boost, it’s still far better than any other talent systems we’ve ever had.

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I don’t. Back then it was cookie cutter and if you didn’t follow it then your dps/hps suffered. They were basically pointless. This one now, I will say is a bit overwhelming but I like it better than Vanilla.

To be fair cookie cutter still exists, because it’s just a byproduct of having talents that affect our performance in the first place.

If we can do a little math to figure out the best option, a lot of people are going to insist that you take either the best option or something very close to it.

I just wish the current trees were willing to make a few more abilities baseline so I didn’t have to spend talents on iconic abilities for my class like Lay on Hands, or spend points on abilities I’m literally forced to spend them on like Blade of Justice and Divine Storm.

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these talent trees make you think you have choices, but its ST vs AOE. and micromanaging 2-3 of them. its kind of annoying tbh

Holy s*** how did crafting turn into this miasma… Some say ‘takes time to learn,’ some say albatross. Ctrl+Z and hold.

People wanted meaningful and interesting professions, and Blizzard delivered excellently. Which, to be honest, wasn’t something I had high hopes for after Shadowlands, but they managed to make them interesting, useful, and have progression that isn’t ‘craft all’ and ding max in 10 minutes.

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If you have trouble understanding the talent tree then you don’t understand your class and should start there.

No, just, please no, to all of this. The new trees arent perfect but the talents from cata to shadowlands were just so… boring. Everyone ended up with the same exact build as everyone else… This isnt a moba, its an mmo. The more options and small choices the better imo. Sometimes you have to pick something you dont want in order to get something you do want. Thats how it should be, it adds weight to the choice. The trees will change with time and updates and nothing in this game is static, (except evokers being op, apparently) but i dont see a point in going back to a system that was widely unpopular with the majority of players.

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With the MoP talents? Absolutely not.

These are better than the MoP talent trees 100%. But I do agree something about them feels messy… it’s hard to tell sometimes which playstyle the tree is taking you and some talents it feels incredibly difficult to tell if its important or something that can be skipped for the goal you had in mind.

…Kinda wish they got rid of most Legion and Shadowlands talent abilities and replace em with new stuff, the Shadowlands abilities are especially badly designed and usually unexciting.

The original talent trees in Vanilla and TBC although very simplistic and cookie cuttery atleast had the gift of clarity, and the abilities you did get from them were iconic gamechangers.

I don’t.

Those were awful. They were one of the two reasons I rage-quit at the beginning of Pandaria and didn’t return for seven years.

I like being able to pick-and-choose and experiment among plenty of options.

But if you are really having that much difficulty, there are guides all over the net for people who don’t like to play around with the talents for themselves.

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I so second this!

IDK.
I strongly suspect all the %s get gobbled up by tuning.

I won’t disagree the gear availability was a huge issue why you didn’t see very many fire mages, feral droods, prot pallies, etc … However the specs were also pretty garbage. Just take mage for example. You would be laughed at if you weren’t arcane/insert fire or frost. If a prot warrior showed up and wasn’t prot/fury he would be vastly underperforming. If a feral drood showed up to the raid and expected to tank they were told no and I hope you brought 20 pummelers. While Alot of this was issues with mechanics and gear availability it also has to do with the specs themselves. I mean shamans have been told we weren’t allowed to tank for ages yet we had a talent in the enhance tree for more block chance with shields.