A Basic Campfire was elected to Warchief over Garrosh in all polls, need I remind you.
Sadly, the Horde doesn’t operate via a popular vote.
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Was this in Cata or MoP?
Because Cata Garrosh was arguably nowhere near as bad as MoP garrosh outside of the Forsaken plotline. His Kalimidor actions were dealing with a famine partially caused by the Alliance and fighting back against Varian’s incursions, which started before ashenvale. He executed a general for targeting innocents when Varian promoted one for doing the same.
Then MoP happened.
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Also worth noting that the demand for a Sylvanas loyalist option mostly didn’t come from Team Evil Horde—it was (from what I can tell) overwhelmingly Team Spite.
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I remember some people not liking having to be forced to team up with Saurfang after being dragged through the mud the entire expansion.
It was definetly a If you’re gonna admonish us for playing horde and calling us evil, etc, give us the option to stay loyal to Sylvanas at least. And you know what? Good on the people who got the option added to the game
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I went loyalist entirely out of spite, spite for the devs for putting sylvanas through that and spite for saurfang for being a feckless spineless coward
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Which is kinda weird given how he acts at the start of Twilight Highlands proper. Where he sends his entire escort force to attack a couple of Alliance ships. Leaving himself and the rest of his air fleet vulnerable to an attack, which of course happens. Then you had an Orc physically attack the Goblin who was questioning Garrosh. A sign of things to come.
Fergus Gearchum says: Captain, sir! Alliance naval fleet sighted off the port bow.
Garrosh Hellscream yells: The Alliance steams in close formation without escort.
Garrosh Hellscream yells: Air guard, attack!! Strafe them now, while they cannot maneuver!
Captain Krazz says: What - WHAT!? What does he think he’s DOING? The carriers are unprotected.
Captain Krazz says: What kind of madman orders away his close air support?
Kor’kron Air Marine says: A winner.
https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Twilight_Skies_(2)
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It didn’t help that in the Blizzcon advertising Cataclysm, Metzen was saying that Garrosh just needed to be given a chance to grow into the role, so I think on a meta level it was more understandable for some to try to overlook the bad parts by holding up Stonetalon.
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Mightnight’s literal first tap for this trilogy was Alliance Turalyon and Alliance Alleria visiting Silvermoon to see their Alliance son who lives in what is intended to be a Horde city after “”“neutral”“” Gilneas and whatever the world tree is named happened.
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All of Pandaria.
Notably the last patch. Vol’jin and those around him.
Even Khadgar scolds the Alliance player, and he was supposed to be an Alliance character, while he welcomes the Horde into an Alliance camp in WoD.
Thrall screams for the destruction of Stormwind while we are saving him during Cata.
Heck, even in BfA before the siege of Orgrimmar some of the Horde NPCs talk about wanting to wipe out the Alliance, these being ones siding with Saurfang.
Etc, etc.
Point is the Alliance is not exempted from the whole ‘you are bad lecture.’ And while Horde typically only get it from Alliance, the Alliance players also get it from Alliance characters.
I hope that was sarcasm. It seems like it might be, but you never know. If it was, /clap I guess. If not you need to go back and do a serious relook. It was pretty blatant. Everything from Thrall being the main character to all the cut content to Alliance questing in 1K needles and even some in Ashenvale being literal cut and paste Horde quests (in 1K needles they even forgot to change the quest text and had to update it in the first patch) to the Highlands intro, etc, etc.
Not what happened.
Also, Highmountain & Suramar (the biggest story beats of the expac there)
How about how we were lead by Bwomsamdi to save Troll loa? Or running around with Kael’thas. Or all the Forsaken connections both from Lordaeron and just the scourge. Or you know the whole Sylvanas arc. Etc.
Horde only had less content than the Horde was used to. Horde had plenty in those expacs. All three were close to equal, but I would argue Legion and Shadowlands had more Horde.
So was most every race.
First off, Tauren did in Ardeanweald. We got some of their history. Not a ton, but nobody got a ton.
But notably most races weren’t involved. No Gnome (the least developed race in the game) lore, no Dwarves, no Draenei (and then have dealt a lot with the dead and spirits), etc.
You know, I think I am seeing a pattern here. You have very specific ideas of who should have gotten a specific story. And when they didn’t get exactly the story you thought you ignored what was there.
I guess a lot of that depends on what you consider “sizeable.”
I agree that the significant majority of Horde players would not fall into that group. But what % does? One? Two? Five? Ten? I don’t know. If I had to guess, we are probably in the 5-10 percent. But that is just a guess. They are present. And they make a lot of noise, which could skew the appearance.
From my experience yes and no.
You do often see the heavy Alliance partisans calling for the Horde to be labelled evil. But I don’t see many asking for the Horde to actually go evil in actions. They just want to be able to say they Horde is evil.
On the flip side, you don’t see many Horde asking for the Horde to be called evil. But you do get a good few calling for them to do things that would make them evil. Things like calling for the Horde to destroy the Alliance. And there were a good number that cheered things like Theramore.
The thing you have to remember is at the end of the day, Alliance players and Horde players are actually pretty much the same. They picked a different side for any number of reasons. But they are still humans. Meaning there is an equal share of terrible and good people in both groups.
I don’t think they lied. Lying requires intent to deceive. I think they honestly believed it was different. I suspect they were looking at motivations, the fact she was at some level redeemed, etc. They just didn’t think about the fact that the player experience was pretty much the same regardless.
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The well has gone dry on Blizzard assurances.
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Horde gets it from Horde characters too. Saurfang (multiple times). Baine. Valtrois. The flippin’ leatherworking trainer.
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When was the last time the alliances lecture was punctuated with the death of its characters
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The Alliance “lectures” are typically just vague “You fight too much” admonitions too. Nothing as personal as “I don’t trust you and I think you suck, but you’re going to have to follow me around on an extended quest chain while I abuse you.” I’ve played Alliance pretty extensively, and I can’t think of any examples of something like that. One line from Thrall while he’s in the middle of a split-personality crisis just doesn’t compare.
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They were not horde content or horde cities until BFA pre-patch.
Dude you do a few quest for bwomsamdi nothing compared to what I mentioned. You really are doing mental gymnastics.
Only other races more affected by legion was Dranie and they did get plenty of content. Orcs didn’t.
Now it was bland got it, and an entire zone had a lot more content and questing than Thrall. Not even close.
Dude the zone was all about wild gods NE sure it had some other things but majority of it was related to NE. Heck winter queen I elune’s sister for Christ sake.
Atleast try to be objective in your statements. Just try a little. And one or 2 quest don’t equal to an overarching questing to save Tryanda or Adium spamming multiple zones and patches. Heck even cut scenes as you like to bring up.
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Okay, fair.
My main point stands. The complaints are not one sided.
It gets frustrating when Horde players act like the all the bad things happen to the Horde only and only good things to the Alliance. That just isn’t the case. I am sure Horde players don’t care for it when Alliance players do the reverse. I just wish people could stop pretending only their side got bad stuff and discounting and/or denying the issues from the other group.
You must have missed the questing with Thrall. And with Vol’jin. And what Khadghar said to the Alliance in WoD. Etc. Cause it is absolutely there.
See, this is what I mean when I say disregarding things that are there. SL had very little for EITHER faction. The big ‘Alliance story’ beats in SL was in Ardeanweald. But between Tauren history and notably Bwomsamdi’s story the Horde got just as much story in that campaign. He even had an instance dedicated to him. Sure, it wasn’t a lot, but it wasn’t a lot of story for the Alliance either.
You have disregarded all the Horde and inflated what you believe the Alliance got. All to serve a narrative that is not accurate.
Light Forged Draenei got a decent amount of story. So did Highmountain Tauren, who had VERY little connection to the Burning Legion.
- They Are Horde cities, that is all Horde lore
- Both the Highmountain and Nightborne had story connecting them to the Horde races (Tauren & Blood Elves) before they became part of the Horde.
Again, this is just you looking for an excuse to disregard Horde lore because it doesn’t fit they sole victim narrative.
Either you didn’t play the zone or your memory is seriously impaired.
First off, wild gods include Loa, you know those Troll gods.
Second, did you even play the Night Fae campaign?
Chapters 1 & 2 are basically neutral, but with seeing Baine, looking for him and saving him. Little story for the Horde.
Chapter 3 is about Tyrande, so Allaince.
Chapter 4 is about Bwomsamdi, so Horde.
Chapter 5 is like 1 & 2 in the sense that Tyrande is the reason you were sent, but the story is about Qadarin and Thiernax. There is no story beyond that for the Alliance.
Chapter 6 is all Drust and no faction specific
Chapter 7 like 5 is Tyrande is mentioned, but not developed. You spend your time working with Huln (Tauren) and learning a bit about him. More Horde development than Alliance.
Chapter 8 was all about the Loa. So, VERY much Horde story development.
Chapter 9 finishes with all drust, no faction.
Campaign over.
So, of the chapters:
1 & 2 Had a little Baine, but no real Horde development.
5 & 7 Had a little Tyrande, but no real Alliance development. (though a touch of Horde in 7)
3 is Alliance
4 is Horde
6 is Horde
9 is neither.
So, off the campaign chapters there is actually more time spent on Horde. Add in the wrap up of the zone being some more Alliance than Horde, and it pans out to pretty close.
Then of course there is more Horde story in Revendreth. And the whole Sylvanas being the main arc of the entire expac. And of course there was Uther’s whole arc (Loerdaeron citizen/hero, making him connected to the Forsaken, not the Alliance). The whole wrapping up of Arthas tale. Etc. Take a real stretch to pretend the Horde didn’t get development.
And the runecarver is the origin of the Forsaken via the scourge.
And you tried to discount the Highmountain connection to Tauren because they ‘weren’t Horde at the start.’ Goose/Gander issue here. Highmountain have a shared ancestry AND they did join the Horde. They are much closer to Baine’s Tauren than Night Elves are to the Winter Queen. If that doesn’t count as a Horde development, how does Elune’s connection to the Winter Queen count as Alliance?
We could try to nitpick just how much each faction got in SL. I would argue it was pretty close. But, you are just brushing off things that don’t fit the ‘Horde is the sole’ victim narrative. Things that have more connection than things you count towards Alliance. That way you can pretend it was some massive Alliance expac.
And I am sure you (and others) will continue to do that. I am sure you will invent some reason that Horde stories doesn’t count. And then use that to claim the Horde didn’t actually get development.
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glob bless you zambie bones for keeping that thread, pellex.
please save backups for the inevitable forum mod incursion.
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Meringue goes on wild tangents where she mischaracterizes events and paints black fences white but this is wild to me.
Night Elves heavily interact with their death goddess.
Does even one Forsaken whomst is not Sylvanas or the player character speak with the Primus?
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Sylvanas doesn’t even speak to the primus
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Whatever Khadgar says, he doesn’t count because he’s not a Horde NPC.
What exactly does Thrall say to you apart from “I want to destroy Stormwind” (which isn’t even addressed to the Alliance PC) during the aforementioned split-personality crisis?
Ditto Vol’jin: what precisely does he say? Are you thinking of the questline where the Alliance player gets the opportunity sass back at him, that also tells you how bad he smells?
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I’m done arguing with him, at this point I’m sure he is trolling.
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