Yeah, it should. Because Mythic raiding is for people with no lives. They can afford to spend a part-time job’s worth of hours on the game just raiding. Why tune a game around 1% of the players when you can tune it around 30% instead?
Then make the enemies chain properly. Right now, you can cherry pick mobs out of groups. It suddenly becomes a lot harder to limit your pull size when you have no say in the number of enemies you pull. You either get a full group or none.
As for T11, it remains challenging even at higher gear levels. The tuning is such that, while you can somewhat outgear it, you will still be in mortal danger a good deal of the time. S’like any other high-end content in that regard.
THIS.
SO MANY TIMES - THIS.
All these people talking about delves being so lol easy and casual, at least 90%, if not more, have never even tried a tier 11.
OMG - I just checked wowhead.
Only 3% have cleared a tier 11!!!
So now I am just convinced, get out of here saying delves aren’t challenging. Exactly as you said:
I too would like games to stop offering higher difficulty modes than what I have the skill to complete. /sarcasm
Then it has failed as solo content or group of enemies I guess.
The challenge there is mundane though - like did something crit?
You have never cleared a tier 11, so you have no place telling people how easy it is to clear a tier 11. You are just another person basing delve difficulty on lower tiers.
In what way? It would simply demand people use more of their kit. Every class has access to both hard and soft CC options.
Tiers above 8 begin changing up mob placements, throwing in minibosses, and adding new mechanics to trash and bosses alike.
Nah, I’m fine with Mythic keys beyond what I can do. I couldn’t do a +20 in DF. I don’t have it in me lol. Fine with having Mythic raiding in the game too. It’s just a huge time commitment. Letting players get gear from M+ on the same track is bone thrown to likely the majority of us who don’t have all those hours to play just raiding. If there were guilds that limited Mythic raiding to 2 hours per session, you bet I’d be making my raid logs like nice for those applications!
I’ve cleared tier 10 early on. True, I didn’t really attempt tier 11.
You realize if gear is awarded to anything but the lowest difficulty someone is excluded (including lfr, cause 10 stack determination, it isn’t easy enough.)
Becasue there wasn’t enough incentive to do so?
See, this is the argument many of us are making:
The higher tiers ARE more difficult and should be rewarding more for having people clear more difficult content. Then the true difficulty would emerge and so many saying delves are easy would be here crying they are too hard.
The higher tiers aren’t just more health and damage, there’s new mobs and mechanics thrown in. There’s mobs people probbably don’t even realize exist because they have never ventured beyond tier 8.
There are no new mobs, no new mechanics, Two minibosses that you can skip or reroll.
Yes, but you’re tying it to gear.
I agree it should be more rewarding, I don’t necessarily agree the reward should be Myth track gear.
The more I see people who either don’t use Delves as their endgame pillar, or even openly despise Delves, complaining and commenting on Delves (such as with the recent Zekvir vault change).
The more I think Delves are going to need their own gear, much like PvP ended up getting. That way you can offer good rewards in Delves without worrying about the portion of the playerbase that’s soo caught up in “min-maxing” that they’ll spend hours in content they don’t enjoy just to get upgrades for their characters they can take into the content they do enjoy.
It’s a bit sad that things in WoW need to be that segmented, but a loud portion of the playerbase constantly proves that it has to be.
Good rewards isolated to delves might as well doom a pillar to not played status.
Rereleased Mage tower was like that, collect old world junk for better performance.
I thought PvP players have largely been happy with their gearing currently. Having it split off allowed them access to the sort of gear targeting they otherwise couldn’t have had because M+ players and raiders would “feel forced” to PvP for upgrades.
I really don’t see how Delves having gear that is designed to be great in “world” content, but not the likes of M+, Raids and PvP is really any different.
I don’t see how that would kill them given they’re targeted at people who traditionally have predominantly stuck to that content and thus didn’t have an endgame to progress through.
PVP doesn’t need any gear to be fun, but really, I recommend League of Legends instead because it has no gearing up process.
Right.
And that’s why the PvP templates in Legion were met with backlash.
Because PvP players don’t care about the ability to customise and progress their character in an RPG.
Because pvp players wanted an unfair match, and not real pvp.
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Fair enough.
I think we can find a place in the middle (as if anything we say will have an impact). Right now, it would be nice if they simply provided more valorstones or … SOMETHING. No gear upgrades, fine. But no increasing in crafting materials, gold, stones, crests, or anything?
Between the two extremes, something can be put in place.
Tbh I think if the meta progression were more interesting (Visions, for example, but more thoughtful than what they were doing in BfA) it wouldn’t need a form of progression that carries outside.
I don’t think Delves should go full Torghast power fantasy and invalidate your class kit with certain roguelite builds, but I do think a Delve-exclusive progression track that isn’t Brann would go a distance.
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Delves revisited: trying t11, same as before, venue shopping.
Far from universal in difficulty, and endlessly kite things.