I hope so, 10s and 11s should give mythic in vault and upgrade crest equivalent. Right now its essentially dead end unless you dive into mythic+10s wich is already more than mythic 8s of previous seasons. But without the crests you cant upgrade weapons up to that level so there is a current gap. A delv 10/11 is equivalent, especially since Blizzard forces us to do “grind” 8-10 a week.
I would agree that one of the main purposes of delves is to funnel players who have always chosen not to do your group content into group content, and harder group content. However, you cannot force players to git gud or do content you know they have chosen not to do.
I disagree. Delves were clearly intended to provide gear for raiders and mythic+ keypushers getting ready for the upcoming season.
Don’t you read the forums? We have been told here many times that normal dungeons should not transition players into heroic dungeons.
Do you think a massive role playing game with 15 million subscribers should be about arcade tactics? I understand what you like, but really, the top gear and achievements are reserved for the 1 percent without pay to win. Blizzard is gladly selling predatory tokens to those trying to keep up with the Joneses. They also are using free labor to get those token sales by people carrying others through dungeons.
I think we agree about pay to win. But the reason it is even around is because the content is too hard for the special person in your life, Blizzard sells predatory tokens and some people got to have what they didn’t earn.
As Arena dealt a death blow to battlegrounds in TBC? I agree.
Then the difficulty is gonna have to get amped up in one way or another.
This isn’t even 5% as difficult as the equivilent M+.
You are part of the problem.
You are the person here advocating that people just earn enough gold to buy carries, which I think is STUPID. Blizzard isn’t encouraging you to keep up with the joneses, they are taking advantage of your FOMO.
The real solution is to lose your FOMO and remember it’s a video game.
It already goes up in difficulty!
Tiers beyond 8 add new enemies and mechanics that aren’t present at lower tiers.
More generally, I’m not saying tier 10 needs to drop mythic gear.
HOWEVER:
Tier 8 - 25 valor stones
Tier 9 - 25 valor stones
Tier 10 - 25 valor stones
Could we least increase how many valor stones you obtain from higher difficulties?
Yes, I think the higher tiers should give more, but at very least, couldn’t they give something more than a tier 8 so you have a reason to them more than once?
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For GROUP content, it absolutely is the gear progression.
That’s a hybrid progression that is dependent upon personal preference. Not everyone wants to craft or has the gold for purchasing crafted gear.
It’s all still part of the normal group-based gear progression. Crests and valor stones merely aide in upgrading gear which, if you’re going for the high-end, you don’t waste those on dungeon gear for sure.
This statement makes zero sense. The group gear track includes heroic raiding and mythic+.
Delves aren’t intended to be part of that track. Later seasons will likely see the disparity between delve gear and group gear become greater and delves will be less relevant for people that care about item level.
It ends as it is meant to because solo track.
Group content is what is killing group content. Having a solo track will likely have a positive impact on it. Just imagin the reduction of toxicity when people have a choice in the matter let alone opening the game to a whole new market of players that could join group content. If not having enough people for group content was an actual issue we would think people would not make it so hard for people to take part.
I would love to see delve loot ilvl match that of m+ and drop from the individual delves rather than just the vault rewards.
M+ is a disgusting cesspool of toxic elitism that many people hate doing outside of friend groups. Let us have an alternative means to fully gear up so that we don’t have to put up with that crap.
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Not every bit of content needs to end up at the same place. You gear up in delves to do delves. You don’t need a higher ilvl than 606 to do delves.
This IS in parallel to other End game content. But it’s for a different group. The people that it’s for aren’t really going to be running raids or M+. The Delves is where the end is for us. It’s a stepping stone to people who the delves were not for. It’s not meant to branch people into group content, it’s meant for us that don’t want to deal with group content. We don’t need M+ or Mythic Raiding gear to do delves, we just need the delve gear to do delves.
If it gave Mythic Raiding level gear, then it would invalidate pretty much 2 other tracks of gear progression and effectively half kill both of them. It’s perfectly fine at the level it’s at.
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That’s kinda happening to me. The 1st tier 8 I do every week so far only counts as a tier 1. It’s only happened with tier 8 though not 7’s.
It’s for the same reason M+ players push their IO or PVP’ers push their Rating, etc. It’s fun (for many) to watch a score go up and to see how far you can go before the Season ends.
Plus everyone has a different idea how much gear they need for the content they want to enjoy. Some want a challenge and will go in under geared while others want things as face roll as possible.
You are the first person I have ever seen trying to separate solo progression from hybrid progression from group progression.
Most people will do all of it in as efficient manner as possible.
The person who stands to refuse to do anything unless there other people in an instance is just gimping themselves and if part of a team, likely the lowest geared person holding everyone back.
Also, your argument that delves aren’t supposed to be part of the progression track or parallel to group content goes directly against how they have sold with the developers. On that point, you aren’t arguing with me, you are arguing with what the developers stated intention.
I expect the disparity between delve gear and group gear will actually go down, not up. It’s alreeady equivalent enough that many Mythic+ players complain about it.
It ends as it is meant to because solo track.
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No, because delves are designed to keep solo players playing and subbed.
Again, that’s why the higher tiers exist in the first place.
This is a sub game where the developers want people to stay as as possible.
However, if more isn’t done to encourage it, then they will simply have a massive drop in subs 2 months post-launch instead of 1 month post-launch.
Literally what is going on here. Delves have opened opportunities we have never had. You can play this game entirely solo now and actually enjoy it. You can play this game entirely as part of a group and enjoy it. And, you can do a mix of both (hybrid) and enjoy it. That’s not insane, it’s just what we have so, not sure why you made anything of it.
Gear chasers will, yes, but they are not “most people”. Gear chasers and progression players like to think every one is playing the game the same as them but there is a much larger contingent of casuals than those groups. So, no, most people won’t even care about the gear as much as they do the fun they have with the content.
This is not relevant to the discussion.
Delves have been sold as a solo gear track that can be run in small groups up to 5. From what I have read and watched, there have been no claims of delves providing equal gear to group content (parallel) as we move forward. If that is the case then I’m all for it, but I don’t care if it isn’t.
I disagree with the disparity. There’s no reason to think that delves will be able to maintain a reward in parallel with high-end content. Because they are focused on solo play, the difficulty has to be kept in check far more than m+ or raids. Now, if a scaling system were added to delves so that the more players you add the more difficult they become, then I could see some likeness to other group content, but that isn’t likely to happen given the intent of delve content.
Wow, you completely missed what I was saying. For the current season, delves end (meaning the gear chase) where they need to given they are solo. M+ and raiding continues beyond the delve gear track, which only supports what I’ve been saying in delves are not going to parallel group content.
You think? Again, you seem to be insinuating that solo/casual players are out of content. Well, again, you’re wrong. Casual players are not racing to the gear finish line like the gear chasers. They take their time and enjoy the content and many, if not most, will never cap out their gear in a given season because they just don’t care about it. That leaves plenty of gameplay for these players versus the ones that want everything yesterday and who are always complaining that there isn’t enough to do.
No, they won’t. There is someone making that statement with every expansion and it’s hilarious because it’s never been correct and there’s no reason to be concerned about it right now.
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Oh look, more people trying to gatekeep. Man, it’s almost like solo players deserve to challenge themselves and be properly rewarded for their time and effort.
T8s exist for people who want to be casual. T9-11 should have increased rewards, up to and including myth track gear from T11 specifically, as it is every bit as difficult as high keys.
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Since I don’t object to much of what you say, let me focus where I disagree.
First, stop acting like solo/casual players are some group I don’t belong to.
I am a solo/casual player, so when discussing what these players want, recognize that I am also one of those players.
Second, yes, there is always a large drop-off post-expansion. That isn’t a controversial statement or notion, it’s quite simply a know fact about MMOs in general. Blizzard’s own charts support this and the developers of WoW, or frankly, any MMO, have never denied this.
Delves, and frankly other new aspects, are all designed to lower this churn. I am saying the churn will simply be delayed if the treadmill in place ends too quickly. Ultimately, I won’t suffer cause I will just play something else, but I don’t for a second think that’s what the developers want.
I know it’s a controversial topic at this point, but I really don’t think solo content should equal group content. No matter how hard they make it, it’s still solo content. It’s infinitely easier to be successful as a semi-competent player when all you have to do is get your own performance down. Half the difficulty of dungeon and DEFINITELY raid content is getting everyone involved to perform adequately and correctly at the same time.
Taking that aspect away just makes success in any piece of content a matter of time.
Everything is “easy” comparatively if you only have to be concerned with yourself.
Explain to me why a solo individual who has taken their gameplay to the highest level should not be compensated for the time and effort required to reach that point.
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Because they’re participating in objectively easier content regardless of tuning due to missing an entire aspect of challenge present in group play.
Not saying it should get nothing. But it shouldn’t be allowed to just mirror group content’s reward scheme 1:1.
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