Semantics aside if the number of mechanics increases that’s still scaling. And Zek’vir is a perfect example. /shrug
Delves are our salvations brutha!
I’ll ask the same question I always ask in these kinds of threads. If you have sufficient gear to do the content you enjoy doing (in this case I’m assuming delves) then why do you need better gear? To me the gear is a tool that allows me to accomplish the goals I have in the game. If I already have the necessary tools, I personally don’t feel the need to upgrade further.
“Endgame” can be, and in my humble opinion SHOULD be, completely subjective. What are your goals? If the goal is simply to have the highest item level possible, there are avenues to achieve even that goal. I don’t think it’s on the developers to make it so that all roads lead to max ilevel. Just my $.02 and it’s probably not even worth that much
I think your question is a very legitimate one.
It’s difficult to answer easily because it raises so many points all at once, so I’m going to try to make it more specific.
For me specifically, it has less to do with the specific item level and more the game loop created for tiers 9 and up. In principle, doing those harder levels should be in some form more rewarding. It could be more crests, crafting materials, maybe it increase by 3 item levels each time, or something else, but the higher tiers should be more rewarding.
[quote=“Frostitûte-area-52, post:103, topic:1978611, full:true”]
“Endgame” can be, and in my humble opinion SHOULD be, completely subjective. What are your goals? If the goal is simply to have the highest item level possible, there are avenues to achieve even that goal. I don’t think it’s on the developers to make it so that all roads lead to max ilevel. [/quote]
My counter-argument here is that the developers in a way have set up some “endgame” results, which reveal itself in the achievement system. Looking at the feat of strength “spelunker supreme” we can observe three possible ways of achieving it:
-Heroic Raid Clear
-2000 Mythic+ rating
-1600+ rated PVP
I don’t think it’s an exageration to think that players in these individual groups have these goals when a season starts. Myself, I definitely want curve for example. However, I would like to see a day where a fourth line is added for delves, or whatever delves evolve into, which reflects a solo player achievement.
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Delvs are group dungeons 2.0. By giving you the option to solo or not they are tricking you into doing dungeon style content. The rewards for the difficulty level is really high, and people complained about the difficulty level as it is.
Personally, I think they view delves as the modern proving grounds.
They do a very good job of making you play your class better, and I think the developers feel this helps tranistion people to the harder group content.
So, I guess we agree that the developers are using delves as a means to an end.
Every 10-12 bountifuls? I have seen 1 map from chests in last 100 tier 8+ . What’s your secret?
Zek has popped up a few times but has consistently dropped the weapon.
This is just season 1.
Delves were never meant to be an item level to item level replacement.
Delves are intended to be solo content for those that don’t want to do group content. Sure, you can use them as a stepping stone and, well, you might as well use them to at least supplement efforts in group content IF you don’t mind running them.
But delves are not actually part of the gear progression for group content (lfg > normals > heroic dungeons > etc.) Delves are their own track and as the seasons move forward, we will see the disparity. Anyone that the delves were meant for will not care as gear is not their motivation.
Everyone else has all the other group content they are accustomed to.
That’s not at all the current gear progression unless you want to do things as slow as possible. The current gear progression, if being efficient, is really crafting, world quests, rep gear, and delves until item level 606.
Heroic dungeons and LFR are more useful for the crests and valorstones they reach then the gear they drop. Same is true for normal raids frankly.
So there is a parallel, but it stops when heroic raiding and high Mythic+ become relevant. As I said in my original post, I would prefer seeing it extended and only stopping when mythic raiding and mythic +10 become relevant. In other words, it’s not that the parallel is absent, rather the parallel for delves ends too early IMO.
I am going to tell you all how to do end game. Forget the delves. You can repost as much as you like or make a guide if you wish.
Step one, lvl a few characters to 80. Should take a few hrs each.
Step two, get minimum gear to go to LFR, again a few hrs.
Step 3, train jewelcrafting and enchanting. 2 mins.
Step 4, go to queen and get loot.
The goal is to get the crafting recipes. Sell them on the auction house for gold. Use the gold to buy whatever end game run you wish. Welcome to pay to win.
I will always be a heroic raider, but now I’m happy that I didn’t have to gear up in m+ at all. I do not like it, and I do not want to do it. Delves have definitely been a hit with me. I would like to see the gear carry further though.
See above guide. This is the new WoW endgame.
NO.
ABSOLUTELY 100% NO.
If I felt that I had to play the game this way, I would usub RIGHT NOW.
I don’t play a video game to not play a video game.
I don’t play Elden Ring, get to the last boss, and then ask someone else to beat it. No.
The method you describe is legit so infuriating to me that I legit will leave the minute it becomes the conventional way to play this game.
I will NEVER buy a carry just to beat some raid or Mythic+ level.
I would prefer to simply LEAVE and NEVER play the game.
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Some games have mostly side-grades from different content and the variety of content instead offers different cosmetic rewards instead of power.
If WoW shifted in that direction I’m not sure which content would survive. Maybe it would depend on if the cosmetic rewards were enticing enough from higher end content.
The people who do it for the leaderboard or world firsts would still do it regardless, I’m just not sure how much other people would still play it. Delves already killed interest in lower key M+. Clearly not many people care to do it just to do it if they don’t get a decent reward from it (though there’s no cosmetic reward to chase from them I don’t think).
It is the way it is now. Why put 404 pulls in to mythic queen if you just let someone else figure that out and take a ride? Better jump on the ride fast before other people out the crafting trick.
Good post OP. Delves are my end game now. I’m going to resubscribe based on what they do with them.
I want the rewards and difficulty to scale up to an Elden Ring level of difficulty for solo play.
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My issue isn’t with the crafting trick, or with making gold.
I’ve already got all profs at max except inscription and engen, so it’s not like I dont understand what you are saying.
However, as someone who spent days learning to solo bosses in Elden Ring, my main objection is when you say:
Because that is what gives me the dopamine hit, finally beating it after trying for so long; although for me I’ll settle with doing it at the heroic level. If I just paid gold for curve, I would always look at that achieve as worthless and a reminder that I didn’t actually “earn” it.
I like overcoming difficult challenges in video games.
Earning gold to then buy a carry conflicts with how I gain enjoyment.
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I know I would be engaged in the season for a helluva lot longer if delves could give myth from vault. I know I will be quitting at 619 unless that happens or dungeons become easier up to +10 (or revert myth vault back to +8). Sounds like itd be a good change to game to me in order to retain more casual players.
I dont think there would be as big of outrage as people think, its really the same 10-20 posters over and over on both sides.
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I don’t think it’ll kill group content because if you just read the forms you can see that there’s a split in the gameplay styles of the base just on this forum.
A lot of people absolutely love playing in groups even if it’s problematic and I don’t think having solo delves is going to take them away from that group dynamic
And then you have solo players in here that you are not going to get into group content to save their lives they would probably quit first
What I don’t understand and I’m not bashing anybody here but I’m a casual solo player for the most part and I don’t understand why I would even need anything beyond really just questing gear as long as that question gear will let me get into old content dungeons and raids to farm transmog with
Why would I need m+ level gear for anything else? So I’m not real sure that I agree that someone in my position even needs the gear that I think some are looking for
It wouldn’t, there’s a lot of overlap in pve content. More serious players would continue to do all avenues for gear/cosmetics/achieves.