There isn’t one. Mythic raid gear should be only available to those that put in the time/effort for it. Same with Arenas. The game play is on a completely different level.
But it would be nice, to be able to upgrade LFR gear up to something equivalent to “less than Mythic”, (which I think in game now)
LFR drops 239/246, ZM gear drops higher ilvl than LFR.
isnt there a way to upgrade ZM gear to 252 as well?
Progression 5 man’s have been a request since the beginning of wow. People liked small group content but it quickly became boring and irrelevant.
Mythic raid is just a renamed heroic, resulting from casual players getting multiple easier difficulties.
Again, what are you even trying to argue? Mythic raiders aren’t asking for even higher gear for farming the same mythic bosses over and over. When they hit their end they’re done. As for being able to AFK, I wouldn’t know.
You do a task - you get the promised reward. Say ilevel 252. If you keep doing the same task, that reward shouldn’t get higher without the difficulty increasing, which is what the world crowd is asking for.
Doing all ZM will put you at total 252, just like doing all normal raid. If either person wants higher than that z they need to do more difficult content.
I understand you’re trying to gotcha me with the notion that starting a raid at 226 and ending at 252 is getting higher gear for doing the same thing, but the difference is just that you don’t get a drop every time, while WQs have a guaranteed reward.
They asked for higher ilevel for doing more difficult content. As it should be. They’re not doing heroic over and over and demanding mythic ilevel.
I’m assuming the ilvl you get from ZM is tied to rep. Not positive on that.
Cypher system max
Wow never was. No mmorpg is.
[/quote]
Not true. When the game came out you didn’t have to be hardcore to spam sinister strike and eviscerate or rupture, etc…apply this rotation to other classes at the time.
My point is not to go back to that, but compare ‘release’ to ‘NOW’. There are so many systems a brand new player would have to jump through today, specially at endgame, compared to previous iterations of wow years ago.
We’ve already established that blizzard doesn’t care about bringing in new blood, but just to keep milking current subscribers, hence no ‘new player’ friendly systems.
Did you even play WoW in vanilla or earlier expansions? WoW definitely had an optimal spell/ability rotation. That is why Elitist Jerks became so popular, because guides and research were important.
Do you remember the old talent trees? There were variations, but the core was pretty much always the same.
Yes, there are new systems; however, there are old systems that are also no longer in place that were difficult for entry level players.
I brought up talent trees already, but do you remember how it costs gold every time you wanted to respec if you made 1 error and how much more of a challenge it was to farm gold back then? If you wanted to raid, you pretty much needed to be in a guild and fight for DKP or roll against a 40 man raid.
If anything I think new players have it easy. They level up, do quests and get gear that has them ready for end-game content. You couldn’t do that before. In the past they would level up, spam normal dungeons, then farm reputation to get into heroic dungeons to get heroic dungeon gear, then raid.
The best part of shadow priest is exactly this, being a machine gun of abilities. With the tier set you have so many procs, it’s amazing. The only thing I don’t like in SP is searing nightmare.
And buff us please 
What folks?
Funny to have someone bring that up.
This weekend a friend started playing at max level and me plus a group of friends began to help them get used to survival hunter gameplay.
Between setting all keybinds for main spells and the utility stuff they already felt overwhelmed.
And we hadn’t even started on the colored bombs yet.
It is enough to say, they won’t be ready for +15s any time soon.
I can’t imagine someone trying to learn that on their own. New players will just give up.
Yea just by doing the dailies and collecting cyphers from the chests you upgrade that little rolling robot and increase the ilvl of the gear that drops over time. The max it will upgrade to is 252.
Did they need to set up all their key binds and macros right after hitting max level? Maybe that was over the top and is what overwhelmed them?
I play with stock UI, and only use keys 1-4 and click the rest. It works to me idk.
Well you’ve been stuck there for a long time 
I am never going to level my forum poster.
Don’t forget the clicker part.
I can’t comment on that, I don’t even have a mouse
Lol, yeah I use DBM, Recount, MDT, and TankPlates. Only macro I have is for BoP/remove aura
True, it might not exactly be needed and I might not be the best teacher, but they wanted to join in the “fun” with us.
We are trying to go slower now but the idea of doing high end content will have to wait.
Yeah, I am in the same boat with one of my RL friend that plays. I intended to push keys with him, but I think we are sticking around +15s for a while.