I said it early, but I truly don’t understand why the gear needs to be heroic level to do the solo world content when things scale to iLvL.
I don’t understand how that is supposed to encourage compelling gameplay.
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For crying out loud, I just explained why you would still want to do the raid. You even quoted it. You do it for the fun of it. That and the raid gear is almost always better than anything you can get from emissaries and it’s also less subject to RNG. Someone who decides to completely eschew raiding and M+ just because of the emissary bump is going to have a bad time. I’m not really sure I would call emissaries a “path of least resistance” if you truly care about gearing your character properly. I mean, sure, it’s a path in the strictest sense, but so is a dirt road full of potholes.
Why not? It certainly doesn’t hurt anything, and I also explained this in my last reply. The performance boost to your character scales faster than the boost the mobs get. You should have stopped noticing the scaling before you even hit 340 average. I’m also not sure why it matters to you if someone else decides to use that gear only on world content. Sounds an awful lot like gatekeeping to me.
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I think the problem is it’s not a perfect world. Loot is the main driver for creating guilds in the first place. Why people join guilds and end up making those friends. And for a lot people the loot is still a large part of why they’re willing to wipe 30 times learning a new boss with a large group of people.
Building those groups and friendships takes some time and effort. So the question is very valid, why go wipe 30 times learning a boss when you can just wait a month and go kill 10 bears by yourself.
The game needs to be encouraging relationship building and normal to heroic raiding guilds, not invalidating them.
Blizzard really needs to address the embarrassingly gawd awful social tools in this game.
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You explained it from your perspective, but I just can’t fully get it. It sounds a lot like just getting your cake and eating it to. With raiders, it’s getting the shopping list of items and baking the cake and then eating it.
It doesn’t matter to me. What matters to me is the desired gear progression for my character. Why would I dedicate my time to a raid group when I can just do solo content. I have no reason to do so unless I want to aim for Mythic.
Sounds like you want to make this unconstructive with a comment like this ![:woman_shrugging:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/woman_shrugging.png?v=6" ":woman_shrugging:")
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Agree. They are removing any necessity to be social in the game. If I didn’t play on a RP server, I’d think this was a single player game.
If you are playing the game to get that next “progression” hit, like you’re some kind of heroine addict, I can’t really identify with this rationale. I don’t play the game because I’m “rewarded” with seeing a progress bar roll over. Sorry.
The people I still have I try to kill in 10 while we laugh in Discord. We have gotten real creative.
Already have the achievement.
But yes it is about those. But it is also about progression.
Examole. In Legion even when everyone was geared we started taking alts. I still took my main to help them power through. We raided up until a little after 8.0. Well after doing plusses and raiding was not worth the gear. And we had fun.
This expansion though, both raids, we got our AoTC and stopped. Simply put, there was no reason to continue. There were no alt runs and nobody cared about the gear.
The crux of the problem is there is too much gear out there at a high level. My guild is in trouble because of it. As I imagine a lot of people’s are.
Between people not raiding atm, and unsubbed it is hard to recruit and fill a raid roster. Throw in burn out and people playing other games in the meantime and it is a recipe of a Neverending cycle of get somebody they quit. Get somebody they quit.
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Why not?
Every expansion i try to get into raiding. I just dont like the scheduling aspect of it, or being on someone elses time.
The gear might be the same ilvl, but half the time its inferior with azerite traits or stat distribution. Not to mention the trinkets are almost always terrible.
Ilvl is not the end all be all, and raiding shouldnt either.
But why Heroic Level gear? Why isn’t LFR level gear good enough if all the person does is solo world content?
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Because nothing is stopping you from still making those groups and building those relationships. You’re still perfectly capable of having fun in a raid even if gear is the main motivator.
And for the third time, raiding and M+ is almost always better than the stuff emissaries throw at you anyway, so that’s plenty more motivation to do those instead of “waiting a month and killing 10 bears”.
Err… yes? I don’t know what you mean by this. If having fun while raiding/M+ while also getting the best possible rewards “is having my cake and eating it too”, then sure.
It certainly sounds like it matters to you when you keep harping about not needing heroic loot for solo world content. And you would take the time to raid or M+ because it’s fun and the gear is usually better than the stuff you’d get from emissaries. If Blizzard bumping the ilvl on infrequent emissary rewards several months after BoD was released is enough to harm your character progression, I don’t know what to tell you. I actually can’t quite suss what your argument even is because I don’t understand how any of this impacts your desired gear progression at all. Anything you were doing before is still there.
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And the content ofc. But the gear isn’t as important?
It’s true. They literally made raiding a moot point when they removed tier and introduced azerite gear that you get from everything with the same perks.
Why honestly do any content that isn’t wq or one mythic + for weekly TF roll?
Tier needs to come back.
It’s also funny because they promised more are.lr sets without tier and look at where we are right now. Lol
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I just don’t find it sustainable for the folks wanting to raid. Providing gear at a Heroic level is in a way, going to poach potential raiders from the pool. Some folks don’t want to Mythic raid, they just want to Heroic Raid. It’s much more casual and flexible than Mythic raiding. So when you give them the easier gearing progression method of doing nothing but world quests, you are, in a way, killing off raiding guilds/flex groups.
Again, i ask, why does it matter so much to you what others have? Their enjoyment should not be your enjoyment.
With the myriad if reasons people are quitting BfA, I would bank on the ones doing so because of WQ gear being the minoroty or the minority.
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That would depend on the individual. I don’t think it is always what is most important to the player otherwise Mythic would always be the target no matter what for the best gear.
Like i said before. The gear from WQ and the like it typically horribly optimized. There is plenty of incetive to raid if youre into raiding. From someone who was on WrA in Legion i highly doubt youre having trouble filelding a team.
Oh a Heroic level, the necessity of it for character progression is diminishing. It doesn’t matter if they’re not as optimized. If folks hit the ILvL plateau for their character, that’s enough.
The world quests gear has no reason of being this absurdly strong is all I’m saying. LFR level would be appropriate for the amount of effort folks are putting into increasing their characters power progression. They’re not fighting the big bads in Heroic, why would they need gear of this power?
First off I take offense to your example. It is highly inappropriate and extremely uncalled for.
It is not about a progression hit. It is about I can gear better, more effectively in mythic plus. This is the issue.
It was not like this in Legion. Let me say it again. We would run alt runs and some, like myself would bring mains. To power through. It served us well. We had fun. We still ran plusses. We did not have issues with burnout or boredom. We helped gear alts so they would be viable next raid tier.
This entire expansion we have not done a single alt run. No reason to keep going. The WF and TF carrots are not effective. We cleared it, got our AoTC and were done.
We can gear alts, and ourselves, much more effectively via mythic plus. It is less effort and we can grind them for 400 level gear. Any single one of our regular players in the guild we can have set up in 400 gear within a week of them dinging 120.
This is not accounting them doing Darkshore warfront, the 4 mythic weekly, Ivus, etc. Now, with emissaries going up it will be even easier.
Simply put, we did it. We got the achievement. Why go back? I have 9 shots at loot for the week OR go do plusses. Guaranteed a 410 on Tuesday and can redo as much as I want until all slots are 400
It is about use of time. Sit in queue for 45 minutes with barely anyone queuing(yes it happened with a blockade) or spend that time more productively?
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The problem with your reasoning is these people you’re talking about would have simply dropped out of the raiding scene sooner or later anyway. If they were raiding for fun, none of this matters and they’ll keep right on doing what they were doing. If they were only raiding for gear, they’d have stopped as soon as they hit that Heroic ilvl plateau–which if they care about actual progress, is a silly thing to do because emissary gear is still pretty garbage compared to what you’re getting out of instanced content (maybe if I say that enough times it’ll finally stick).
If we’re being honest, someone who told me “sorry guys, I’m not raiding anymore, I’m going to just sit back and occasionally pick up a crappy piece of gear from emissaries every 1 to 10 days” isn’t someone I would want in my raiding static anyway because they aren’t capable of making sound decisions.
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Yeah, they would have dropped it after a few months vs. what we have now in maybe less than (idk) 2 months?
But these folks have always existed in raiding. That’s why you never stop recruiting for your raid. Some people raid for the gear. A lot of people raid just for the gear. When you remove the need for them to gear in the appropriate difficulty, they’re just going to do the world quests and then quit anyways.
Handing out HEROIC level gear is not necessary or needed if you are only doing solo world content. You’re kill 10 bears. Not killing Azshara.
Edit, I have to duck out and begin cooking dinner for later, I’ll probably be back later Momo.
To reiterate, I don’t think providing Heroic Level to open world content is sustainable at all. I think folks are gearing at a rapid rate, getting bored because they’re plateauing quicker and then leaving the game. There is essentially no reason to raid outside wanting to do it with friends.
I’m not, which is the point. I’m lamenting the slow removal of the things that motivated me to raid.
Sadly, the transmog appearances in non-mythic raids are rather lacking and in BoD, the tint variation’s aren’t that varying. And yes, there’s less opportunities for gear than raiders, but there’s more opportunities and better gear that solo players can obtain in each patch.
Please actually try and read my post. My issue is that there’s so many ways for me to get raid-level gear that I have no reason to raid. This isn’t about ‘other people’ at all. There’s no reason for me to challenge myself with raiding.
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