Exactly.
If mythic raids dropped no loot, my entire raid team would simply cease to exist. Nobody would bother.
I beg to differ. Loot was merely a tool that allows you to reach that next level or tackle that new dungeon.
The content is the reward in RPGs and you acquire loot to tackle the content. This is how WoW was always structured. You need better loot to be able to see the harder content.
Now the game progressions systems are borked and the content really doesn’t have any difficulty at all.
You can basically AFK your way to kill the final boss of each patch and get showered in with epics along the way. No wonder this game can’t keep players engaged longer than a few months after content drops.\
Edit: I’m not saying people don’t raid for loot either. I just think getting cool loot is kind of the side product of beating the encounters.
No rational player cares what others get or do for that matter, people who progress or farm will just grab their buddies or guildies and play other games that offer a more rewarding experience. I’d imagine wiping on bosses for 3 hours just to get some loot you could very well get by doing stupidly easy tasks will not hold their interest for long.
A lot of guilds are already dwindling.
So I’m not surprised OP feels this way. I can bet there will be more.
Tbh I blame item level scaling. I mean I understand that it helps keep WQ’s relevant longer, but as long as they keep adjusting it throughout the expansion the item level bloat will always continue, and that feeling that your character is getting stronger will only happen towards the very end of a expansion. Always felt like crz was the absolute worst thing they added to this game until they snuck item level scaling back in legion which I now believe was the worst. Just my opinion anyhow. They will just do squishes after every xpac.
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I agree, all valid points. As someone put it, it’s really a solo-treadmill. I get why but it’s not a sustainable model, I may be wrong.
The approach and overall design is so messed up.
I guess I’m just used to back in the day playing games that never made things easier but I’d have to work at beating something. Now it’s like yeah I can spend that time doing it while it was current, OR, come back at the end of the expansion…
since Blizzard will just do a pity party for the rest of the players so they can give them a participation ribbon. ![:thinking:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/thinking.png?v=6" ":thinking:")
It’s kinda why I enjoyed cataclysm. I haven’t done any kind of progression raiding since wolk. Got so far into ulduar before finally burning out on raiding. In cata I was able to get good heroic dungeon gear, and then use justice, and valor points to buy some pieces from previous tier items to fill in the slots that the heroic dungeons didn’t drop. Never felt like I needed to raid to feel stronger at all. Sure I didn’t feel like I was getting as strong as the hardcore raiders, but in all honesty it did not bother me, as long as I felt like my character was getting a little stronger along the way. Kinda wish they would go back to that system. The raiders still would feel they had the best items, and the average player could still feel like they were stronger also. Hope what I’m saying is not to confusing. Heck I didn’t even know about lfr dragonsoul either. But it didn’t matter, because like I said my character felt like it had progressed anyways, because even though I had a few heroic 378 items, with some 346 justice valor point previous raid tier items I still felt stronger towards the end of cata. I guess the same could be said for mop also even though I did some lfr during it’s run.
I used to raid normal levels many years ago. I quite honestly never cared about my GS (ilvl) to be honest. I raided because I found it actually fun.
On my hunter, I PUGGED ICC25 for almost 25 weeks. When it was current content. I didn’t get my LK kill until literally the very last weekend of that expac. It wasn’t lack of skill for me: it was lack of time.
Know what? I still found it fun.
I didn’t need the highest GS/ilvl on my server. Why? Because to me and a lot of other people I’ve seen over the many years i have been on these forums: gear doesn’t equate to skill. (This is a completely different lecture though.)
I raided because it was fun for me.
Maybe try that.
I can tell you right now, if you’re not a solid raider, you really don’t care too much that much about a piece having a bit more mastery than haste, or crit instead of versitility if it’s a good ilevel upgrade.
Yeah, 1-2 pieces an hour for how long? If we were generous and say you had 50% success in getting loot, you’d have 4-5 pieces for your week. 1-2 pieces a day for a week is 7-14 pieces a week. Not counting warfronts and PVP quests.
No, I wouldn’t question the boss and that is still being petty. It is none of your business what your boss does with other employees, he is your boss and gets paid to make decisions. Just like in this game you aren’t likely to know the entire story, just how you want to interpret things.
I can tell you straight-up: I care! I WANT to be the best I can possibly be! It’s just that the time-invested for that gear isn’t worth it for me anymore. As I said earlier, that stopped being true in LK.
It’s also a remnant of what raiding was like in Vanilla. You could get the call to raid with your friends at any moment. And if you aren’t on top of your gear curve, you can’t go. So I try and keep my gear as good as it can be, because my SKILL LEVEL is always top-notch. I’m a great player, I just don’t have the TIME anymore.
When it comes to the end-game, this is what I felt Blizzard gave up on in LK. When that expac was all about pushing envelopes and investing the BILLIONS of dollars they had pouring in, they never did anything with the end-game design. Blizz needs to accept the fact that devoting 3+ hours on a SPECIFIC raid night isn’t what I consider a worthwhile use of my time. LFR isn’t popular with people like me “because it’s easy”, it’s because I CAN DO IT ON MY TIME!!! Maybe I raid Tuesday at 8pm, maybe I raid Tuesday… at 5pm, or even maybe I raid Thursday?!
Why does such a concept seem anathema to the “elite” of this game?
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If nothing else it will help normal groups push their content and try heroics. Most of my raid group is well over 405 and there aren’t really many upgrades to be had in heroic, but we still want to get AoTC.
This will also help people who play alts. Plus, it isn’t like raiding rewards the highest ilvl gear now anyway (high mythics).
The point is, anybody who was actually going to raid heroic BDA has raided heroic BDA by now. The raid has been out 3 months. You haven’t been inside it on heroic mode. Why do you care that you now don’t need to? You weren’t going to anyway.
Why would Blizzard take any notice of people who complain about invalidating content they never had any plan on doing? Your outrage is fake. Anyone who actually raided this season was done with heroic BDA loot several weeks ago. This change will not affect them whatsoever.
The only reason people are still raiding heroic BDA is to get AOTC, breath of bwomsamdi or the mount.
You mean like how my hunter used a BOE epic weapon from the AH from level 70 through to black temple because there were no upgrades in 3 tiers? Like that?
I’m actually happy they will be adding this because I have friends that mostly pvp and they dislike raiding period.
I tend to agree, there was no reason to add another ilvl catch up for this raid. it’s not really an improvement over BoD anyways. But hey, at least my two alts who never raid will be able to get heroic BoD caliber gear from doing simple quests.
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Theres no out gearing Herioc Blockade and Jaina. My guilds been wiping on Herioc J for weeks sololy because the few pugs we pick up that have 405+ilvl can’t even avoid avalanche stacks.
If you’ve been wiping on heroic Jaina for weeks, it’s not the pugs.
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Yes because you were in there with us on that boat. You must know what we have endured. Pug tanks not swapping and getting frozen every 30 seconds. Pug Dh flying off the boat to his death saying lol my bad. Not to mention out of a 16m comp we normally run, only 8 of us are guildys. So yes it is the pugs. So please go back in your hole troll.
I have a hunter who is just as geared as my DH was at the middle of Mythic Uldir raiding even though I’ve played my DH pre-release at the end of WoD. I mean, my DH went through an entire expac and my hunter is more powerful than my DH was in Legion in just a couple weeks.
You have to understand that there are gear catch-up mechanics.
Also, you have to see that it’s more than just iLvl. Are you getting the right stats/traits/trinkets from non-M+ and raids? I’m not sure that’s always the case. WF’s drop 400 ilvl, but it’s only once every 2 weeks, no bonus roll allowed, and you better hope it’s a piece you need. If not, that’s it for 2 weeks on WFs.
You can only get 400 Azerite armor from ems if you are close to 400 ilvl and it requires having that as an available emissary. And if it’s a duplicate or badly itemized one you’re out of luck until the next time the emissary reward rolls around. I haven’t even seen an emissary provide Azerite armor in the last week or more (my hunter is still rocking a blue 355 chest piece because of that).
I think what a lot of people miss is that those other drops can help, but putting experience aside, someone who has been farming Heroic BoD weekly will be outputting higher dps with the same class/spec as someone who’s only acquired gear from Emissaries, Warfronts, and World PvP Quests. Why? More chances at BiS, and generally better trinkets.
Honestly, this is why non-raiders and non-rated pvpers are generally worse at the game - because they don’t understand the nuance that it goes beyond ilvl.
That’s also why there’s things like WCL and Raider IO because of the inherent iLvl inflation problem. You’ve heard it before - some 400+ ilvl joins a M+10 key and complete fails at their class and the mechanics because they think they should be doing that content based on their ilvl, but don’t know anything about their class or the instance.
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This complaint isn’t about other people’s loot. It’s about the feeling of wasting time in a raid for 2 hrs when it takes 30 min (depending on travel times) to get the equivalent ilev. Reward for effort has been diminished greatly in BfA and therefore doesn’t entice people to do harder content.
edit: This isn’t the only reason though, only one of many. The main reason I no longer raid is the fact Blizz took tier sets out and made all the gear generic (no more class sets)
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