Champs was a 2 shot, Grong was a 12 pull, Jade was a 7 pull boss, Opu was something around 30(?) Conc was 4 pulls, Rasta was 10, Mekka was like 80, Stormwall was ~50, And Jaina was a fat 397. If we hit 400, I was planning to off myself.
Jesus Christ I’d have left the guild.
This just in different groups have troubles with different bosses. We one shot Champs does that mean I can belittle your experience and say your group is entirely incompetent because we did it less pulls? Just curious because that is exactly what you did to me.
I recall one player awhile back suggested there are 3 tiers of mythic raiding guilds.
If your guild has downed Jaina you’re in a Tier 1 guild. Congratulations.
My guild is a Tier 2 raiding guild. We routinely get deep into mythic progression, but never down every boss before the tier expires.
Very few mythic raiders are in Tier 1 guilds. Most are in Tier 2 or 3.
We raid 2 nights and are probably going to down Mekka on Tuesday and then down Restless Cabal in like…an hour on our “bonus” night on Wednesday (just raiding 3 nights this past week and this upcoming). Will we get CE? Idk. Idc. 8/9 is almost a guarantee though since we still have over 2 months.
On a side note Rasta is easier than both Op and Conclave. Most of our wipes were tank fails or people failing to put death’s doors on markers. If you make it through phase 3 the boss just dies as long as even 15 people are alive. Perception could be skewed since we did Conclave with…3 curse dispellers. Oof.
What could possibly cause you to wipe though? The randomness is jarring, getting swapped, but 70 pulls? I’m more curious than intent on flaming. Though I may flame further, I promise nothing.
I dislike this, because calling guilds in the top 2k “tier 1” is misleading, imo. The difference between a top 10 to a top 50, a top 50 to a top 200, 200 to 1k, etc, is pretty big.
You got it, Jaina will probably be nerfed again. They usually nerf the end boss like a month prior to new tier, and some specs get the CoS boost, good stuff.
I agree by a mile on Op, but my guild was flabbergasted by Conc. We downed Op, on a high (first boss that took more than one night) and we figure we’ll start the next boss…and it’s dead in half an hour. Four whopping pulls.
Same people being bad for most pulls. Being 3/9 means your ability to replace weak links is harder than say a 6/9 guild especially pre-xrealm. The boss DID die the like 5th pull we got everyone to the last room. It is just getting everyone there that was an issue. Op by far has the most individual responsibility of the middle 3 where weak links will ROUTINELY botch a pull. Rasta might be on par if the same bonobo keeps getting picked by Death’s Door and not putting it on the stupid blue marker, but that is much more rare than someone being swapped to fire side and eating a frontal cone to the face. Or dropping an orb in melee.
Also, as I edited in earlier. Conclave is a much harder boss when you don’t have a bunch of druids/shamans/mages.
Flames of Punishment, silly plays with lightning balls, mismanaging the lasers?
I’m confused as to the complants, because for years people have been asking for other means to gear up outside of raiding. Now that other methods are viable, people just point out that gear isn’t the main motivator to raid anymore.
Raiding should be about the raiding, not just the best gear. It is still unarguably the fastest and most reliable way to gear up, plus the best for transmog / player prestige, but it is no longer the only way. This is what players have wanted.
I think you are getting “other sources of gearing” and “other compelling sources of gearing” confused. If the alternative source of gearing was at least ROUGHLY on par with a +10 or H BoD then sure I think more people would be all for it. This is literally “kill 12 mobs you 2 hit” or “draw some circles” and you get Heroic raid gear for it.
If instead of bumping Emissary caches they added semi-difficult solo’ed mini-bosses to kill for 400 gear. I don’t think anyone would really complain. This isn’t a parallel lane in a pool or something. This is a regular olympic swimming pool being placed along side a slip-n-slide.
You’re also comparing the potential of 1-2 good pieces a day to potentially 1-2 an hour while raiding. Warfronts is maybe 1 good piece every 3 weeks if we look at just ilvl. The pacing is very important here because there is no way I will gear up like you will if I am doing my daily emissary quest and you are raiding H BoD with a guild.
I’m not saying the alternative content is hard, I’m just saying it exists. Also the reward from emissaries is always the same pieces. Raid / high M+ gear is way more optimized so it will be better at comparable item levels.
This isn’t new. New raids come out so higher level gear is there. In order for things like emmisarries and wqs to stay valuable they to get upgraded.
Then at the end of the expac in preparation for the next one everything gets a massive nerf. Rinse and repeat.
The wqs and emmisaries are really getting
updated for the azshara raid. Not the mini raid with half baked gear.
The comment has nothing to do with what you quoted.
I don’t know who you are talking about with this comment. Or what argument you are attempting to respond to, but It clearly isn’t one I put forth.
I’ve only ever spoken for myself.
You are the one who came into the conversation going “You’re all wrong! Hardcore raiders don’t raid because of loot!”
Ridiculous.
I came into the thread saying that hardcore raiders don’t raid because of loot…because they don’t. You get your loot from m+. Not raid.
What.
That simply isn’t true.
It’s not. So your presumption is that people who play at a high level do it for gear. When they also spend hours a day doing m+, especially during heroic week.
They’re raiding for gear. And you’re basing that off of…?
OP: “I have no reason to raid anymore. The gear treadmill just seems… pointless in this game.”
Me: Welcome to how I felt by the middle ok LK. It took me all of Vanilla, BC, and the doldrums of Argent Tourney to realize “wtf am I doing??”
LK is still regarded as the pinnacle of World of Warcraft. For me, it was the expansion when I realized Blizzard was content to just do the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over … and I wasn’t.
Welcome to being a dirty casual! Enjoy being a mere 5-15 iLevels behind the “elite” … but also having all your free time back to enjoy your life. May I suggest learning piano? ![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
A very large motivation for raiding IS the gear.
It’s not all about the achievement. If it actually were about the achievement, raid teams would never reset the raid. They’d just continually extend the same raid instance over and over until every boss is downed once. Then they’d be done and never return.
I have no problems with there being other avenues than raiding to get equivalent gear. That’s fine.
But the reward should roughly match the effort.
The fact that you can get better than LFR or normal mode raid gear with 1/50 the effort by spending 2 minutes to do a WQ or 15 minutes for an emissary quest to get a guaranteed reward is NOT fine.
The content should be the reward again. RNG loot raining from the sky plus the extreme accessibility for raiding and most group content = boring game. Mounts, achievements and AOTC are boring carrots imo.
Go back to 1 or 2 raid difficulties and this loot system we have now would make more sense for the game.
I personally think WoW was at it’s best when raiding wasn’t available for auto queuing. If players now can get Heroic quality gear from WQs and they can AFK through LFR, what incentive do they have to raid the real raid difficulties?
I swear LFR has been the ultimate bane since it’s inception.
They don’t know what to do anymore, because they gave players the ability to see raids, which previously required actual effort to get a spot on a raid or even a pug and just gave it away.
The game doesn’t have any longevity after basically a few months after new content drops for the bulk of the casuals that play this game.
Now they are just trying to bribe LFR heroes and the crap ton of other players that won’t join guilds and do group content with raid level rewards for doing the most trivial content.
This game is a mess anymore and I doubt it is going to get better.
I’ve seen this crap before with other game studios. Developer hubris or maybe just a complete lack of understanding of what a MMO is basically destroys the game over time.
So if Blizzard were to pluck all the gear away from Mythic raids how successful do you think it would be?
It’s not. That’s simply not how RPGs or human nature works.
Right from the beginning days of pen and paper D&D, making your character more powerful by defeating encounters to get loot has been a core part of the gameplay.
Every RPG in the last 40 years has followed that model.