I have no reason to raid anymore

(Redseal) #357

Really? No one gets it? It is about getting people to keep accounts open. Since, like myself, many lost their guilds to lack of interest in the game, this is a way for people to get stuff and stay busy. Hence keeping accounts open, hence the big wigs get that fat bonus!

(Blimpo) #358

Even with this, there is still gear to get. So maybe there are a few people who might not feel special because their item level is only 25 points or so above some other lucky person’s item level, but more people will stop feeling like second-class citizens; more people will feel like they have gear good enough to pug raids they might not otherwise do. So, I think this makes raiding more accessible to more people and that it is a fair trade off. Maybe not, it is a bold experiment to narrow the power gap between the various player types - time will tell.

(Sorelai) #359

Raided from Vanilla through Cataclysm. Many times I would not get loot. Usually only got an item if it was for the minimum DKP bid. Wasn’t really the point of being there so I didn’t care much.


I find it really discouraging when I work so hard on my main, and then the next patch, not even the next expansion my alt gets comparable gear from rescuing turtles in world quests.

I’m not saying there shouldn’t be any catch up mechanics but they should definitely not be as powerful as they are.

(Natashae) #361

Honestly these systems are just more of the LFR design ethos in the game.

Lets give casuals access to all the group content and not require any of the social efforts and effort to learn how to play the game. Now, they are giving them the rewards too for trivial solo content.

The current crop of developers don’t understand how to make a fun MMO anymore. They are having issues retaining players because they give them all the content on the easy mode platter.

This game was so much better prior to LFR. I keep shouting from my roof top that this system single handily is responsible for a lot of the bad design and apathy we are seeing in the game now.

Guild raiding was the foundation of this game and it was the carrot that kept people playing. When they removed that barrier, the game just got boring for a lot of players.

Yes you can still guild raid, but when you have the easy afk mode, why bother? A lot of the player base has this mentality.

The push to make this game solo friendly from level 1 to end game raiding has been it’s primary issue since the end of Wrath really.

When people advocate for these LFR type systems they really don’t want to play a game anymore, they just want a toy.

(Ralanthel) #362

The biggest part of this entire topic that I am arguing against is basically this sentence. Daily quests do not give heroic raid gear. That is politician-level misdirection.

An emissary quest, which spawns at a rate of 1 per day, and Up until yesterday had a chance of dropping a piece of gear at 385, with world quests dropping gear at 360. That was increased to 395 and 370, respectively, to keep rewards in line with Crucible of Storms. So even the most powerful WQ gear reward is 5 ilvls below a baseline heroic raid piece from BoD, which most have on farm by now,

Yet raiders are throwing a fit that moderately decent gear is possible from a source available once per day, with a reward chest that often features other stuff besides gear.

The only way to get raid gear without raiding is through the Timewalking chest, and it rewards based on the user’s raid clears so the default reward is a Normal piece. The only thing that rewards heroic ilvl equivalent is the Warfront chest from Darkshore, which is one piece every ~3 weeks. Emissaries can give a watered down piece that is close in ilvl, but it comes at a trickle and the gear table is small.

You should be thankful this system is in place because it is the only thing keeping some people playing. The social aspect of WoW is so dilapidated that if I couldn’t play mostly solo, I would probably just leave at this point, I am not alone in that. All of the middle ground guilds are dead or dying, and the Mythic guilds are something that most WoW players have no interest in.

I don’t think that our current system has the best reward mechanics, but unless we see a MASSIVE overhaul of WoW at a fundamental level, and a return of some kind of incentive to be social, this is the way the game is now. My observation anymore is that guilds are meaningless. They are either dead or extremely clique based, so people choose to do solo content or swipe right through the group finder until they get an easy raid clear. My own guild has become a discord server because we all play different games but still like to hang out, I couldn’t pull them back to WoW if I offered to pay their subs.

There are so many existing things that kill the immersive, social aspect of WoW and replace it with anonymous efficiency. Some low-hanging epics existing in the world is so far down the totem pole of things that are ruining WoW that I can’t believe this is where so many people want to plant their flags and point the blame.

(Whitecrow) #363

Guess you aren’t counting the 400ilvl Azerite pieces?

It’s not misinformation. The Emissaries are perfectly capable of providing ilvl 400 gear.

Heck, just a single McForge and those 395’s are also 400’s.
The second highest tier of rewards in the game, begot through the rescue of turtles, Shell Games, and playing with Loh. Or worse yet, getting 400 quality gear by literally running around in circles given the new Calligraphy quests…

Hate to do this again, but this is factually wrong. Correct facts are important. The Timewalking weekly reward is always a piece of Normal quality raid gear. Regardless of if you’ve run the raid 0 times or cleared it multiple times on Mythic.
It doesn’t reward based on the user’s raid clears.

The Mythic Dungeon weekly awards a piece of Heroic raid gear. Always and irregardless of your raid progression.

The chest reward from these two weeklies is commonly confused by people. They mix them up and don’t understand why the chest isn’t always the same ilvl. They mistake that the chest is “updating” itself when Timewalking happens to be followed closely by Mythic Dungeon week. Rather than correctly recognizing that different weekly events offer different rewards.

(Drezwazluz) #364

Well, more like fifth or sixth now, technically.

(Ralanthel) #365

I’m willing to admit if I am wrong here because like I said, I have stopped raiding, but the timewalking chect used to reward gear based on bosses killed. I think it was something like after 10+ heroic bosses you would get a heroic piece, etc. If that has changed, then my bad.

I still just can’t understand the ravenous anger against this gear. If anything, it supplements any weak spots in a raid group as well. Take that gear into your own raid this weekend to push progression. Players being stronger is hardly killing the game.

The blame is falling in the wrong place, the game is not in it’s current state because of quest rewards. Epics have been easy to get since Burning Crusade.


You, you can be that guild.

Step 1: create guild called the Porkchop Express
Step 2: create Jackburton

That’s it. You’ll be gold.

(Sorelai) #367

Don’t get the reference but thanks I guess.

(Maleficious) #368

After getting AotC and all the raid achievements, my group just stopped doing the long raid to work on Crucible. So going from a 9-boss raid to a 2-boss raid means less raiding until the next big thing drops.

Meanwhile, I’ll just keep staring at my low-ilvl rings.


You will always have better gear than someone who does not raid above LFR. Stop the elitist whining.

(Whitecrow) #370


T1: Mythic 415/420
T2: Heroic 400/405
T3: Normal 385/390
T4: LFR 370/375

If you’re splitting Heroic BoD and Heroic CoS into two separate tiers because of 5 ilvls… you would still be wrong even by that odd perspective.

However, in my eyes the same difficulty level spanning BoD and CoS is a single tier of rewards. Past raids have had a system of increasing base ilvls the father in the raid you got and I feel that is much the same in this case.
E.g. Gul’dan was dropping about 10 higher ilvl than Skorpyron

Just to get the correct facts out there. The timewalking event reward has never scaled. It has been a normal cache since it was introduced in Legion. Same with the Mythic dungeon event, it’s always been just a plain old Heroic cache.

The only scaling caches in the game have ever been from the mission table in WoD and Legion.

Method of acquisition is the issue. It’s completely out of sorts with the rest of the game. Since we are already at the door, why don’t we just let it scale all the way up to Mythic? Let these WQ and Emissaries scale to the games current maximum.
Why stop the scaling where it currently is?

That is where this wave of entitlement is heading anyway, right?


“Trivial Solo Play should never regularly offer heroic tier gear.”

Normally I would agree with this. I don’t raid or do Mythic + Content. I would however like the chance to craft gear that has a gear level comparable to normal raid gear with a quest chain to turn it into an epic piece of gear.

Blizzard doesn’t do this and the one time they did allow you to craft and upgrade gear, they made a three piece limit. I am thankful for the upgrade to cache gear and world quest gear, it gives me something to log in for.

I would rather earn the mats to make the gear but i’ll take what I can from what Blizzard gives me.

Completely forgot about the legion gear being crafted and then upgraded. I spent a lot of hours doing this for my characters and I loved it. If they had continued with that system, I would be doing it now.

(Ralanthel) #372

Son of a lich, that was absolutely what I was thinking of this whole time. I got my chests mixed up, I apologize on that one. I’m not going to redact the posts but I admit here that I was wrong-o.

Having easily accessible gear scale (at best) to middle tier raid levels is a good incentive to get players raiding because they don’t feel like they would be underpowered and useless. That is easy to argue against, but I know a couple people that decided to join a raid night BECAUSE they were able to gear up outside of a raid, it’s a subjective anecdote but it shows that it does happen.

It also helps current raiders fill in weak spots in their own gear so they can push progression.

Having all rewards scale to the highest would be silly, but having it scale to an approximate average of what is current, let’s say 380-410 is the average for a bell curve of ilvls right now. I would see that as healthy.

Sure, some players gear up that way and stop, but others use that gear to push other content. It’s impossible for Blizzard to check all the boxes on this one.

(Drezwazluz) #373

CoS is on a different level from BoD. The loot is higher ilvl, the effects on the loot are worth even more ilvl, and the difficulty of the fights can’t really be compared. Cabal is harder than every boss but Jaina.

Then there’s weekly m+ chests and PvP caches. And the best source of all titanforging.


AotC. I’ve been getting most of my gear from M+ anyways, despite raiding heroic every week. Sadly, the loot rewards has been pointless for a while for me now.

(Ralanthel) #375

I have to admit that this is probably the most underwhelming expansion I have ever seen as far as raid gear rewards. There has been a lot of back and forth here about raid gear vs solo WQ gear, but honestly what really killed raiding for me outside of the social aspect is that the gear just doesn’t seem worth it. The trinkets are all super bland or just worse than M+ trinkets, the gear looks forgettable, no tier to chase, and no gear effects.

Blizzard needs to spice it up.


Maybe you would for a scooby snack.