I hate the NE bias in things

Lore Story Forum
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Now I will find fault with the word “quantity”.
The Legion had a history of Highborne legacy, Elune’s tears, Broken Isles ruins, Illidan the hero, Nightmare. Khadgar Cordan’s bodyguard was on Draenor, but she doesn’t seem to be very well remembered, and she didn’t participate much. Pandaria - the glaive thrower broke through the gates of Orgrimmar, the lake of life-death, somehow connected with Elune, but they also forgot, Prosecutor-Tyrande. Cataclysm - Invasion of Ashenvale, traitor Fandral, Nordrassil. It seems that Malfurion was also a battery for Thrall, so that that world would not destroy when he was four Thralls?
I know absolutely nothing about the Lich King, Outland and the Classics, except that Illidan was, but were there night elves? Naralex?
Hmm, so-so list.

Tauren. Cairne died in a duel with Garrosh, the greatest disaster - Taurajo. Everything?

How do you feel about the idea that night elves need content that makes amends, and right now? And not in the book, but in the game, in detail and noticeably. Including fixes from past expansions, the Treaty of Azshara.
Yes, everyone needs this for various reasons, yes, the gnomes have been waiting fifteen years to return to Mechagon and all that …

So what am I trying to achieve? Recognizing most of the first list not belonging to night elves, or recognizing the need for immediate repairs, beautiful and expensive at that?

Oh my friend @Lenastus ! Have you found the lore reasons why the Forsaken possesses Frost Serpents, necromancy at its purest, and other Scourge delights that haven’t made it to Warcraft 3?

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143

Well of course. Because that’s the tactic of bad-faith arguments from a subset of night elf main posters. You literally just equated everything from Legion, everything from Cata, everything from Chronicles, everything from the novels featuring the night elf leadership with…

Caine dying and Camp T’s bare-existence.

That’s the other, darker side of these debates/arguments. Certain posters who have a need to believe night elves are the most under-developed race will make incredible bad-faith arguments to force their own argument. They’ll over-inflate the smallest breadcrumbs given to another race until it exceeds, in their warped, dishonest argument, everything ever given to their token “favorite” race.

And all that with the end goal of some developer-required reparation to give a race whose cup overflows even more to fill that cup with. Because gnomes, tauren, goblins and worgen clearly have too much lore, if you artificially label all night elf lore as not-night elf.

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Funny thing about you mentioning worgen is that the race doesn’t even get to own its own lore. Everything about them became more night elf stuff and the Gilneans were just taken along for the ride.

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145

That’s because early on in the Azsuna chapter in the Legion Expansion, you find that she turns traitor, hooks up with the Burning Legion, and you wind up killing her in the Warden dungeon. Although after working with Khadgar, I’m almost sympathetic to her Face-Heel turn.

I think it’s overblown and hysteric. and that it’s not going to happen any more than Baine getting his time in the sun.

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Equated - did I say they are equal? You mean that, right?

I will try to continue the analogy about the bowl.
The tauren bowl is small, but it belongs only to them.
The bowl of the night elves is large, but a bunch of pieces were broken off from it for their bowls by other races, it cannot be filled to the brim, because the druids do not give their water, and in general we got this bowl from our dead relative, with whom we were at enmity.
And so we can’t ask for repairs, because our bowl can still be poured more than the tauren bowl?

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That, and how troll loas by and large became just glorified wild gods, a primarily night elf thing, was a whole other rant I avoided to not confuse the issue. But yeah, on a long enough timeline, many races end up having their important lore bit tied in to the night elves, directly or indirectly.

But I know how triggering that is for certain fans and tried avoiding it.

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148

There is also sort of this kneejerk instinct to disassociate NE content with things like “Highborne Content”, or “Cenarian Circle” Content. Or instances where a Neutral Group is overseeing some major event like the Firelands attack on Hyjal, if only to simply allow for participation of other races than NEs in such an event. There is a bit of dishonesty there from some NE players, largely by how selective they are with what is to be considered “NE Content”. A type selectivity they don’t necessarily apply to other PC races.

As you said, you look at certain races like “Orc, Gnome, Troll” content … and the majority of what they get for that racial content is … simply killing members of their own race. Goblins are treated generally as a joke race that kills itself. Tauren aren’t written at all, which is part of why their reps have been so defaulted to being “Token Good Horde” and accessories for Alliance ones. And yes, the NEs were treated absolutely horrifically in BfA, but they far in a way aren’t the only race suffering. And they do regularly get content (despite the poor quality).

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149

Which reminds me, if I remember right, the only thing that actually makes highmountain tauren distinct from their vanilla counterparts is…a blessing given by a night elven wild god. Otherwise they’re just tauren, but maybe one of them rides an eagle.

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150

Except that is factually untrue. Tauren religion becomes a bastardized version of night elf religion. Tauren druidism is straight up night elf druidism that they are sidekicks for.

The tauren bowl is literally half-full of night elf leftovers.

I’ve never said night elves don’t deserve some love. That’s an argument you’re creating for the sake of painting night elves as under-developed. I pointed out the disconnect non-nelf fans have when you guys disavow your own lore, the zones affiliated with night elves, the night elf-centric organizations that other races are sidekicks to, and so forth.

And how even mentioning all of that throws you guys into some weird defensive position where you’ll disavow everything in some disingenuous argument to “prove” no other race deserves attention but your own favorites.

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151

Does Ardenweald belong to the night elves?

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Are you arguing that every other zone in the game has been deleted upon Shadowlands’ release?

If not, then there is no correlation between whether or not Ardenweald is a night elf zone, and the abundance of night elf zones in the game, the abundance of night elf lore, the abundance of night elf-centric or night elf-related organizations, the abundance of prominent night elf figures, or the (relative to other races beyond the Big Four) prominent role night elves have consistently played in WoW.

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153

No, I am arguing that the night elves are credited with something that does not belong to them, because it is oriented towards them.

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OK … but like if you are being so frugal with what you are considering NE content, isn’t it unreasonable to not hold those same type of standards for other races? Which, Aly is right, technically if you look at the majority of racial lore for groups like Orcs and Trolls; “lore” sort of just equates to us killing large swaths of them. And most races compared to these big boys are far worse off by comparison than even them.

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I’m still not over the fact that in Legion, the entire Druid class was monopolized by NE lore :frowning:

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And that is lovely, except utterly irrelevant to the conversation we were having. I made no mention of Ardenweald. Ardenweald’s existence and content does not affect any argument I’ve made.

Bringing it up to refute a point I did not make is just more disingenuous arguing to try to create a defense against a point you decided to attribute to me for the sake of actually having a defense.

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" Elune is associated with the White Lady."

Developer FAQ (Twitter)as Source.

PS: Sorry, the link is dead,was from loreloggy.

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The quote I gave is from Legion/BfA.

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And? We have the proof from shadowland (Danuser), that Elune isn´t the Moon. How else should she be worshipped on other planets, other part of the universe except the moon White Lady is everywhere XD

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My stance is that the moon is part of Elune. She might also be more, but the moon is not presented as a separate part per the religion.

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And I mean, Ardenweald is pretty NE-ish in theme at times. Ysera (like it or not) isn’t dreaming about her fond memories of non-NE races, and she’s not weeping over the destruction of Kezan/Undermine in Play Form like she is Teld. While there is a single questline with Jin and Bwon to rescue some Loa and a Wild God, there is also a questline for Tyrande and Feathermoon. As well as a repeatable quest meant to deliberately cherry pick NE souls out of the Maw. And truly, there is only one PC race in this game strongly associated with Huge Fey-Wild Deciduous Forests … and it sure aint the Tauren, Drust, or Trolls. Even IF the saturation of Ard is dialed up to 11.

Its not NE content, but clearly there is supposed to be some themes associated with them.

EDIT: And this isn’t to say that like, Maldraxxus doesn’t have some shared themes with the Forsaken. Cuz that zone does, as the progenitor of the Scourge. However, there are ZERO even minor plot threads linking the Forsaken to that zone to make use of that. The Undead race has no relevance in the Land of the Dead.

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